Jonathan Stanley of Tarkett explores the crucial role of flooring in student health, indoor air quality, and smarter school design.

1 00:00:00,740 --> 00:00:03,200 [Music] 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:04,799 I want to welcome our audience to this 3 00:00:04,799 --> 00:00:07,279 learn podcast. It is in these podcasts 4 00:00:07,279 --> 00:00:08,880 that learn wants you to meet experts 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,480 that can help you in your work as school 6 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,400 leaders or perhaps partners in the 7 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,320 education landscape. 8 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,839 The topic for this podcast is 9 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:17,520 environmental quality with a special 10 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,680 focus on healthy spaces. And our guest 11 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,439 is Jonathan Stanley, director of 12 00:00:21,439 --> 00:00:23,119 education and government strategies for 13 00:00:23,119 --> 00:00:25,920 Tarquet flooring. On the learn website, 14 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,519 you will find on the research page under 15 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:29,359 the COE of health and the element of 16 00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:31,599 environmental quality research in this 17 00:00:31,599 --> 00:00:33,280 area being discussed today along with 18 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,079 potential resources to access. Jonathan, 19 00:00:36,079 --> 00:00:37,440 I want to welcome you to the learn 20 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,440 podcast. It's good to have you here to 21 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,800 speak with us about this important 22 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,280 topic. Now, I know you have an extensive 23 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:44,719 research and work background in the area 24 00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:46,559 of environmental quality, especially 25 00:00:46,559 --> 00:00:48,399 around healthy spaces for students to 26 00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:50,320 learn in. Would you please share with 27 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:51,920 the audience some of that background and 28 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,600 experience? 29 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,760 Yeah, sure. David, thanks for having me, 30 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,160 Tarquette. And I think what makes this 31 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,680 special is I think there's a very 32 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,760 symbiotic passion for this uh and and 33 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,680 kind of welcoming me to the learn 34 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,280 community. This is a fun event for me to 35 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,360 be at. You know, a little bit about the 36 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,000 experience. You know, Tarkhead is um a 37 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,240 company that's more than 100 years old 38 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,520 and as far as our focus and education uh 39 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,560 for decades. The point of being able to 40 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,360 bring relevant research to the industry 41 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,400 is an important part of us being a 42 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,040 destination place for our customers to 43 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,920 come to and say this is an organization 44 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,320 that focuses on providing relevant 45 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:37,360 research. So um I'm going to fast 46 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,840 forward to you know about 20 years ago 47 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,360 when I started in the industry and 48 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:42,960 started going to all these association 49 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:45,040 events and one of the biggest things 50 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,600 that I started to realize was uh you 51 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,119 would go to these events and someone 52 00:01:49,119 --> 00:01:50,960 would present their research to you. It 53 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,880 was not a place or a hub for people to 54 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,960 get together and actually work on 55 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,240 something. So probably uh four or five 56 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,640 years ago, we came up with this healthy 57 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,159 building summit comp um commitment. And 58 00:02:04,159 --> 00:02:07,119 this this event uh was some of my 59 00:02:07,119 --> 00:02:08,720 experience that I had with working with 60 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,319 an organization called Mind Shift and 61 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:12,400 and Rex Miller. A lot of people in the 62 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,480 industry, as a matter of fact, you and I 63 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,040 uh were connection and past there, but I 64 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,040 worked on three different books uh with 65 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,480 Rex and and that group of people. But 66 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,319 one of the most amazing things about 67 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:27,200 mind shift in this model was you take a 68 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,400 really complex issue and two of the 69 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,360 books were very focused on education and 70 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,120 you look at all the positive outliers 71 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,519 but what you do is you take different 72 00:02:37,519 --> 00:02:39,519 events that happen around a subject 73 00:02:39,519 --> 00:02:42,000 matter and you bring in subject matter 74 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,480 experts and you work in them together 75 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,879 and almost from an an interdisciplinary 76 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:49,120 movement. So that's exactly what we did 77 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,560 when we designed the healthy building 78 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,480 summit and I collaborate with people 79 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,120 from ASBO from people A4LE we have 80 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,840 people from higher education like APA uh 81 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,760 and AUID and we bring these people 82 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,040 together and we unpackage this complex 83 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,440 discussion about healthy buildings. And 84 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,480 so as far as where do I as an individual 85 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:09,920 as a director of education and 86 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:13,519 government, my passion around this is do 87 00:03:13,519 --> 00:03:15,440 we have the right subjects that are most 88 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,319 important that can push forward and look 89 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,480 at the implications around the decisions 90 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,640 and then sometimes unintended 91 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:25,440 consequences in our business. But that's 92 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:26,319 kind of a little bit about the 93 00:03:26,319 --> 00:03:28,400 experience not only of the brand and 94 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,280 pushing forward and then this year with 95 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,680 actually the event being specifically 96 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,920 around what's the connection with a high 97 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,760 performance building which is what we 98 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,239 all want and which is kind of that 99 00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:42,000 sustainable how can it sustain and be 100 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,080 high performance and what's the 101 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,319 implications and connections uh with 102 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:48,959 health both user experience the design 103 00:03:48,959 --> 00:03:51,280 experience and the people that maintain 104 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,680 and operate them and Jonathan I got to 105 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,200 say I think it's absolutely amazing that 106 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,760 your organization does it. It it commits 107 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,000 a lot of resources and time and probably 108 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,120 actual dollars to continue to deep dive 109 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,599 into, you know, the the healthy spaces 110 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:07,439 that students are going to be engaged in 111 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:08,879 to make certain the buildings are 112 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:10,159 sustainable and what's the role of 113 00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:12,400 Tarquet in that. And you know, it's not 114 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,640 just you don't just bring to bear your 115 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,320 own personal expertise, which there is a 116 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,560 lot, but you also bring to bear a whole 117 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,000 lot of expertise from outside the 118 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,320 organization and really edify 119 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,560 superintendent and others in in this 120 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,240 work. And I I just I applaud you for 121 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,400 doing that. I I think it's a it's a 122 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,520 great effort on the part of an 123 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,280 organization and it proves that 124 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:33,040 organizations often like yours are not 125 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,639 just in it for dollars, but actually in 126 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:37,280 it for the the the work and the impact 127 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:38,800 on learning. So, I really want to 128 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,880 applaud you for that. Now, you've been 129 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,240 doing this a bit. Um, I know that. Um, 130 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,400 but, uh, we have a limited amount of 131 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,320 time for this podcast, about 15 minutes, 132 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,639 and so we can't cover all your knowledge 133 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:53,040 in this, but is there some specific 134 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,600 research around the healthy spaces that 135 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:56,720 you would like to share with our 136 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,160 audience that they would find helpful 137 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,720 for their work? Sure. You know, there 138 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,639 was some really interesting indicators 139 00:05:02,639 --> 00:05:04,639 that I would say came out of the federal 140 00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:07,120 funding movement for COVID, right? And 141 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,440 out of that movement, what you had was 142 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,479 all of this um kind of like these 143 00:05:12,479 --> 00:05:14,880 thresholds like if you do this then you 144 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,000 can achieve funding. And when I connect 145 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,160 back to all of the research that's been 146 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,919 done and I've been involved in peer 147 00:05:21,919 --> 00:05:24,160 reviews uh and different things like 148 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,919 that and you compartmentalize 149 00:05:27,919 --> 00:05:31,520 these different uh events um 150 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,520 specifically indoor air quality and you 151 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,680 know it's kind of not a not a new thing 152 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,840 but what is the indoor air quality 153 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:42,000 impact with flooring on the user and 154 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,360 again one of those unintended 155 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,919 consequences of looking at okay if we 156 00:05:45,919 --> 00:05:47,120 seal the building up were going to 157 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,759 become extremely efficient and lead was 158 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:52,479 a big leader in how do you measure and 159 00:05:52,479 --> 00:05:53,840 manage that and then you had 160 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,520 organizations like chips that came out 161 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,759 and said you know what we have to focus 162 00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:00,880 not just on A but also B with B being 163 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,520 the user and so what we've seen is 164 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,759 looking at what are the indoor air 165 00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:08,080 implications of flooring flooring is the 166 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,680 largest space inside of the school and 167 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,120 if you look at kind of the particulate 168 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:14,720 management right all that particulate 169 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,800 matter falling down or circulating 170 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,280 through. One of the biggest things that 171 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:21,600 um facilities management and custodial 172 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,360 it's like how do we solve that by uh 173 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,880 ventilation, 174 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,919 fresh air, but also how do we filter it? 175 00:06:29,919 --> 00:06:31,680 Well, if the flooring space is 176 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,520 collecting all of this, there's two 177 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:34,800 things that are happening. How do we 178 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,720 manage particulate management by 179 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,360 effectively removing it from the floor? 180 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,319 And the second one is if kids are on the 181 00:06:42,319 --> 00:06:44,400 floor and using as an interactive medium 182 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,560 and that's their largest learning space. 183 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,120 You know a desk is what depending on the 184 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,120 desk which manufacturer but it's a small 185 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,199 space. So what do kids do? You know 186 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:54,560 teachers are like okay why don't you go 187 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,400 over there on the floor and do XYZ you 188 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,759 know this this uh modality movement. And 189 00:07:01,759 --> 00:07:05,440 so inside of this one research when you 190 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,000 talk about what is the research 191 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,160 years ago we found out that people 192 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,039 really wanted confidence connecting 193 00:07:13,039 --> 00:07:16,880 indoor air quality allergy and asthma 194 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,680 triggers and absenteeism. You know that 195 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,199 absenteeism is a 11 billion problem 196 00:07:23,199 --> 00:07:25,199 every year. You know what is it like 8 197 00:07:25,199 --> 00:07:27,599 million kids a year are affected by uh 198 00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:29,680 asthma allergy. So when you make this 199 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,680 correlation connection like the flooring 200 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,639 is the largest collector of this and if 201 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:36,560 you're sitting on it then the the 202 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,120 transition or transmission of infection. 203 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:40,960 So the research that we've done with 204 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,919 that with ASL which is the asthma um and 205 00:07:43,919 --> 00:07:46,639 allergy standards leadership group that 206 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:49,599 ASL and asthma allergy certification 207 00:07:49,599 --> 00:07:51,759 basically indicate and say this flooring 208 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:54,240 product will pass this one will not. 209 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,240 We're the first flooring manufacturer in 210 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,800 the industry to actually look at all 211 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,960 resilient products, soft surface 212 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,840 products, and we have a collection now, 213 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,280 not just one or two, but a collection. 214 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,120 You want a soft surface material, we 215 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,199 have an asthma allergy certified uh 216 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:10,960 collection there. And then uh the same 217 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,720 thing with resilient materials. We have 218 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,080 LVT, we have sheet and tile materials. 219 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,720 So the confidence like what does this 220 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,479 bring to the industry? the confidence 221 00:08:20,479 --> 00:08:23,199 that I'm selecting something that a can 222 00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:26,879 be maintained effectively and b actually 223 00:08:26,879 --> 00:08:29,120 is not going to transmit something 224 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,360 because it's maintained effectively and 225 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,479 then c does it have anything in it any 226 00:08:34,479 --> 00:08:37,680 materials from a transparency standpoint 227 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:40,640 showing people this will not impact you 228 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,240 from an offging or from a um just 229 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:45,519 touching it you know there's a lot of 230 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:47,680 things that are immaterials you touch it 231 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:49,680 that it can create a rash crash or 232 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:52,320 trigger something else. So, we're very 233 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,800 happy to be able to provide that to 234 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,800 create confidence in maintenance and 235 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,120 operations and planners to say you're 236 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,640 you're not only selecting a product 237 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,560 that's high performance, but now you 238 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:05,680 know it's healthy. Jonathan and you 239 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:07,360 know, I was school superintendent for 15 240 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,440 years and and assistant superintendent 241 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,200 for a few years before that. And it's 242 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:12,880 it's interesting because I had to deal 243 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,959 with asbestous, right? And so, yeah, 244 00:09:14,959 --> 00:09:17,120 that's about the only time when we do a 245 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,200 a replacement of a floor of an old 246 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,560 building that was something we knew we 247 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,720 were going to deal with, right? It never 248 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,000 occurred to me until just listening to 249 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,200 you now that on top of the surface 250 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,720 because that was all below it, right? 251 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,120 It's on top of the surface, too. And 252 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,959 usually all I was concerned with was it 253 00:09:32,959 --> 00:09:34,399 clean. It never occurred to me until 254 00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:36,000 just hearing you now that it's not just 255 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,080 about being clean, it's about how that 256 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,160 surface works with the environment to 257 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:41,920 actually create a healthy space with the 258 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,360 other elements within your building as 259 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,959 well. But uh I think that's absolutely 260 00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:46,880 fascinating and you kind of made the 261 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,320 case for my next question a little bit 262 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,200 Jonathan but it it just is if a district 263 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,760 was wanting to engage in this really get 264 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,920 you know dig into healthy spaces not 265 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,720 just flooring as a baseline but what can 266 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,200 that mean in terms of healthy spaces 267 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,800 what would be some of those kind of 268 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,279 predictable positive communications they 269 00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:06,880 would want to give to their internal and 270 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,560 external communities. Sure. And it um I 271 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:12,320 actually am not going to talk about what 272 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,399 the immediate is, but what the future 273 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:16,720 looks like, which right, you know, from 274 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,519 a a future standpoint, we've been 275 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:22,320 working at Tquette, which truly was 276 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,000 driven by the outcome of the healthy 277 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,880 building summit from last year is the 278 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,320 need for simplification for qualitative 279 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,800 and quantitative that you can take and 280 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,160 go do. So, we actually worked with area, 281 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:37,680 which is a division of Perkinsville. 282 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:40,640 their research arm and uh Dr. Dr. Erica 283 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,680 Etland and uh leading this this project 284 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:46,959 with her and myself and then a a a group 285 00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:52,399 of other um stakeholders and the the two 286 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:54,640 volumes that we've come up with which 287 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,120 one of them is called setting the stage 288 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,200 and it's about a 20page document to say 289 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,200 the and by the way asbestous is in there 290 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,880 in case somebody doesn't know about the 291 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,480 implications and the impact of of 292 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,040 asbestous but it talks about all of the 293 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,839 different components of flooring 294 00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:12,160 and the impacts that it has from a 295 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,880 health perspective inside the space. 296 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,800 Right? The next thing uh or volume which 297 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,519 is the go do component and that's called 298 00:11:21,519 --> 00:11:23,680 the toolkit. And what you're going to 299 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:27,279 get from that is all of these different 300 00:11:27,279 --> 00:11:28,880 boxes that you're going to check are the 301 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,040 things that you need to then go do. So 302 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,600 the setting the stage is here's here's 303 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,160 the problem and here's what needs to be 304 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,480 solved. either what's in your school 305 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,440 today that you're going to then plan on, 306 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,760 you know, removing and replacing. And 307 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,839 then the next one is, you know, here's 308 00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:48,399 the go do. When you talk about something 309 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:50,560 that I'm excited about because 310 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:54,240 historically, I think that uh even in in 311 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,040 any building component, we don't clearly 312 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,279 set the stage and then give the 313 00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:00,880 opportunity. You know, here's what you 314 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,640 can go do. So, that's what I'm really 315 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,279 happy about. Uh but I think that as far 316 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:08,160 as partnering with us to walk people 317 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,240 through that, there is a final stage in 318 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,120 this process. Uh as far as somebody 319 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,279 being a reviewer, we have several 320 00:12:15,279 --> 00:12:16,800 different organizations, but if someone 321 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,120 would love to review this content and 322 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,160 give us feedback, uh because it it's it 323 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:23,680 can be a little bit complicated to get 324 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:25,920 through the whole thing, right? It's not 325 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,160 written on a sixth grade level. So, it's 326 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,680 written if somebody wants to get into 327 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:32,320 the meat of the why and produce it for 328 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,800 the school board or for, you know, 329 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,639 somebody else kind of in their sphere 330 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:39,200 that they need to present this to. Um, 331 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:40,800 that's where we can actually come in and 332 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,399 partner with them as well. But I'd like 333 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:44,240 some some more reviewers on it. And it's 334 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:45,440 it's actually launching. We're going to 335 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,440 launch it in the next 60 days. Oh, 336 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,279 wonderful. Wonderful. Well, that will be 337 00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,040 a good opportunity, our symposium to be 338 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,519 able to speak about that and and and I'm 339 00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:54,800 certain you could get some takers in 340 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,120 that. It strikes me if I'm sitting in 341 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,720 the superintendent seat though and 342 00:12:58,720 --> 00:12:59,600 hearing what you're talking about in 343 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,839 that get started piece I I have to 344 00:13:01,839 --> 00:13:03,680 imagine within that there's just a lot 345 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:05,200 of information about things I can 346 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,600 communicate to a community that they go 347 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,839 the community go yes I want that I I 348 00:13:09,839 --> 00:13:11,360 want to have that as part of our 349 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,880 decision-m because as as you as you know 350 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,399 um anytime you're doing this kind of 351 00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:17,920 work inside a school building it's a 352 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,000 pretty significant financial investment 353 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,600 and what we want to make certain we're 354 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,120 doing is communicating well to our 355 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,560 community and this is the why um and uh 356 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,240 obviously from a healthy standpoint 357 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:29,600 there are a lot of good communication 358 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,760 points I think you've made already and 359 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,680 and I'm certain in working with you you 360 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,079 could discover some more but even with 361 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:37,680 that 362 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:39,680 what do you know in your what what is I 363 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:42,399 should say your experience that is in in 364 00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:44,800 working with districts around this kind 365 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,399 of uh effort uh that become barriers is 366 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:50,320 you know what do you see being the the 367 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,040 problem of implementation if you will 368 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,800 sure and um it's it's becoming more and 369 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,839 more crystal clear and that is the 370 00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:02,639 phrase one-time money. 371 00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:07,519 And if if you think about how bonds are 372 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:10,160 designed, you're going to vote on them, 373 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,639 you're going to get them and then when's 374 00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:14,079 the next time you're actually going to 375 00:14:14,079 --> 00:14:16,480 be able to address. So the 376 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,120 addressability of that situation and the 377 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,519 frequency is a long time. you know, 378 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:23,440 school building design. And the reason 379 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,680 why concrete blocks, which you know, a 380 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,079 lot of people use this terminology, you 381 00:14:28,079 --> 00:14:29,199 know, it's like schools look like 382 00:14:29,199 --> 00:14:31,519 prisons because the intent was we want 383 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:34,880 them to last as long as possible. This 384 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,959 total of total cost of ownership 385 00:14:36,959 --> 00:14:39,360 mentality by implementing the life cycle 386 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,959 costing decision-m criteria is such a 387 00:14:42,959 --> 00:14:46,240 big function in how we go about that 388 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,240 one-time money. If you're thinking about 389 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,560 flooring, frequency of flooring 390 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,360 replacement is still way too soon. 391 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,079 Making decisions and looking at, okay, 392 00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:59,199 where has this been done and worked 393 00:14:59,199 --> 00:15:01,920 really well? So, the function of 394 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,000 one-time money decision- making getting 395 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,920 in the way. And I'll give you one quick 396 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,600 statistic. 92% of the cost of flooring 397 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,519 is in the maintenance and operations of 398 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:14,079 the flooring the entire life, right? 399 00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:17,360 Only 8% of the cost is the initial Now 400 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,800 that's flooring overall and that was 401 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,480 research that was done several years ago 402 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,040 funded by the EPA, state of California, 403 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,480 state of Oregon was very involved in 404 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,399 that. But the the function of one-time 405 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:31,279 money decision-m probably is a hurdle or 406 00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:33,360 barrier and you're not spending a lot 407 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,120 more, but what you're doing is you're 408 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,120 thinking long-term in this decision 409 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,519 process. That's probably number one 410 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:42,560 hurdle. Number two is the same exact 411 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,120 reason for health implications. make a 412 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,040 decision based on health that that 413 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,519 flooring can a last as long as possible, 414 00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:52,160 therefore have the impact on health as 415 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,399 long as possible. Can we maintain it 416 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:56,880 effectively 50 years from now? If it 417 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,440 lasts 50 years, right? And funny story, 418 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,440 David, we have a product called Power 419 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,920 Bond that was installed in a school in 420 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,920 Jeffco County, Colorado. It's called 421 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,560 Prospect Valley Elementary. The product 422 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,279 was installed the day the school was 423 00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:14,399 built in 1967. It was deconstructed in 424 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:17,680 January of this year. It lasted 55 425 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,839 years. Now, it looks like carpet from 426 00:16:19,839 --> 00:16:22,160 the top, but it doesn't perform like it 427 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,560 because no carpet would last that long. 428 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,440 Right? What I did was at when we were 429 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,000 taking it up, we actually measured the 430 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,720 bio burden on the product before and 431 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,120 after we maintained it to look and see, 432 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,079 okay, in typical maintenance results, 433 00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:39,920 what would these results look like? And 434 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,480 we found that the condition of the 435 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,320 health on top of that floor was health 436 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,519 care is is as as far as like what would 437 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:52,160 you maintain for health care regulation 438 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,920 actually met that quality level. Yeah. 439 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,560 So pretty interesting stuff and and you 440 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,480 you rais a really important point. It 441 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,040 it's you know from an implementation too 442 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,519 and and being fiscally responsible 443 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:05,760 you're putting in things for a reason. 444 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,000 flooring for a reason and and if health 445 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,160 is a part of that reason then the 446 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,000 maintenance of that becomes a pretty 447 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,679 significant component of your thinking 448 00:17:13,679 --> 00:17:15,439 right and because what I have noted at 449 00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:18,240 times if maintenance isn't done in in a 450 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,039 proper fashion then it the the quality 451 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:24,160 of that flooring loses pretty quickly um 452 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,640 if it's not done properly and and uh I 453 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,559 think that's a a a venture that we need 454 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:29,840 to be talking about going down the road 455 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,480 is just how you maintain the quality of 456 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,080 this investment you know just like if 457 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,360 you buy a new car there's a way to maint 458 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:38,160 maintain that car over time versus not. 459 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,679 And so it's I think we need to be 460 00:17:39,679 --> 00:17:41,360 thinking about that. Now, you mentioned 461 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:42,720 this district, but are there some other 462 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,320 districts or schools that you would like 463 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:45,840 to highlight that have really done this 464 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,720 kind of work? You know, I was actually 465 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,280 in uh uh Fresno, California uh a couple 466 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,840 of months ago and I was having a 467 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,240 conversation with a retired director of 468 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,720 facilities there and uh he had gone 469 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,000 through, you know, the different ranks 470 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,280 there. I think you'd been there probably 471 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,000 20ome years. And he made a statement to 472 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,640 me. He said, you know, constantly 473 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,799 there's all these dogs, which is like 474 00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:12,480 different areas of the community of 475 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:13,840 either facilities management, 476 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,320 leadership, or the community in general. 477 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:17,600 There's these little puppies and dogs 478 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,919 nipping at my ankles all the time. He 479 00:18:19,919 --> 00:18:21,760 said, "Do you know we have close to a 480 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,520 million square yards of Power Bond 481 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,000 installed in our school and never had 482 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,520 one problem? We didn't have a claim. It 483 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,280 didn't come up early. We never had a 484 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,520 problem with it cleaning a million. And 485 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,360 I was thinking to myself, you know, I 486 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:38,960 hear stories all the time about how 487 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,200 flooring products work. But, you know, 488 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:42,799 when you think about Jeffco County and 489 00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:44,480 and what they've done to their product, 490 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,440 you talk about specifically Fresno ISD 491 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,320 and and it it just blows my mind. I know 492 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,320 that Cypress Fairbanks uh is another 493 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,799 one, a big one in in the state of Texas 494 00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:58,640 and they've got millions of square yards 495 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,080 of material. And what's amazing is this 496 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,080 is just one of the many products that we 497 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,240 would consider high performance and 498 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,760 healthy. 499 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,720 What's special about Powerbond is that 500 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,440 it actually is a kind of like an 501 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,679 insulator to the slab and it it actually 502 00:19:17,679 --> 00:19:19,919 keeps any moisture from going down. So 503 00:19:19,919 --> 00:19:21,200 you're going to every stain is 504 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,600 addressable, right? It has a slight 505 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,679 cushion under that's very helpful for 506 00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:27,200 the safety and health of teachers from 507 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,039 an ergonomic standpoint that are 508 00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,280 standing all day. And the acoustics and 509 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,120 we we haven't even addressed acoustics. 510 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,760 No. Just beautiful in the space. It's 511 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,760 the first thing we always hear. Wow, the 512 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,360 flooring looks beautiful. And by the 513 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:41,520 way, the acoustics, they're unbelievable 514 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,440 here. Totally change the way that we 515 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,280 interact and engage, right? Which is 516 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,840 what we always want to hear. But I would 517 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:49,919 say, you know, as far as the amount of 518 00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:52,640 districts, I could go on all day about 519 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,480 the ones, you know, that's that's 520 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,840 probably some of our um top three and I 521 00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,600 could go on from there. Well, and you 522 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,039 know, the reason we asked that question, 523 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:02,320 if there's a district that's interested 524 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:03,919 in looking, we want them to know kind of 525 00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:06,000 an area they might want to look. now 526 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,520 also, but if they're really interested 527 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:08,880 in carrying on this conversation with 528 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,320 you and you've given an invitation 529 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,559 during this podcast as well, how would 530 00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:14,720 they go about contacting you to have a 531 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,120 more deep conversation around this work? 532 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,440 Sure. Of course, you can um find me 533 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:20,960 LinkedIn 534 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,520 uh Jonathan Stanley and then of course 535 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,520 my email address and happy to interact. 536 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,520 Love to collaborate. I love to hear the 537 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,360 stories, what you're struggling, you 538 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,200 know, some of the big hurdles are, what 539 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,919 you're trying to accomplish. uh Jonathan 540 00:20:33,919 --> 00:20:35,200 Stanley and again it's 541 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,200 Jonathan.stanleytarquette.com. 542 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,280 Wonderful. Well, Jonathan, I really 543 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,720 thank you for being a part of this 544 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:43,919 important work of supporting our 545 00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:45,679 students and schools and I especially 546 00:20:45,679 --> 00:20:47,120 want to thank you for your participation 547 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,679 in Learn podcast. David, it's an honor. 548 00:20:49,679 --> 00:20:51,440 Thanks to the Learn community. Thank 549 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,440 you.