Closed Captions
1
00:00:00,740 --> 00:00:03,520
[Music]
2
00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,120
I want to welcome our audience to this
3
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,440
learn podcast. It is in these podcasts
4
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,040
that learn wants you to meet experts
5
00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:10,559
that can help you in your work as school
6
00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:12,400
leaders or perhaps partners in the
7
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,799
education landscape. The topic for this
8
00:00:14,799 --> 00:00:16,800
podcast is human attention and how it
9
00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,400
relates to organizational culture and
10
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,400
leadership. And our guest is Curt
11
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,560
Steinhorst, founder and CEO of
12
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,640
Focuswise, head of people and culture at
13
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,279
Venus Aerospace and author of Can I Have
14
00:00:27,279 --> 00:00:28,960
Your Attention? inspiring better work
15
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,119
habits, focusing your team, and getting
16
00:00:31,119 --> 00:00:32,800
stuff done in the constantly connected
17
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,440
workspace. On the learn website, you
18
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,520
will find on the research page under COE
19
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,120
of sustainability in the element of
20
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,200
cultural development, research in this
21
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,719
area being discussed along with
22
00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:45,520
potential resources to access. Kurt, I
23
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:46,640
want to welcome you to the learn
24
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,800
podcast. Is really good to have you here
25
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,320
to speak with us about this important
26
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,360
topic. Thanks for having me, Dave. Oh,
27
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:54,960
absolutely. I'm so excited about this
28
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,960
podcast today because I've had the
29
00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,239
opportunity to hear you and read a
30
00:00:58,239 --> 00:01:00,079
little bit and so I'm I'm excited to
31
00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:02,399
share your expertise in education. Now I
32
00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:03,920
know you have an extensive research and
33
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,600
work background in the area of
34
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,520
organizational culture and leadership.
35
00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:08,799
Would you please share that with the
36
00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:12,159
audience? Yeah, I I did undergrad in
37
00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:14,479
graduate studies really in understanding
38
00:01:14,479 --> 00:01:17,759
the science of attention and I jumped
39
00:01:17,759 --> 00:01:21,360
out of graduate school into the largest
40
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,720
generational research firm in North
41
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,200
America to better understand how
42
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:26,479
different generations are interacting
43
00:01:26,479 --> 00:01:27,840
together in the workplace. And that
44
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,799
really launched this weird journey uh
45
00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:34,240
that has been 15 years of studying,
46
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,880
researching, speaking, writing,
47
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,280
consulting on the topic of how leaders
48
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,520
develop teams and cultures in a healthy
49
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,720
way. Really with a lens towards a core
50
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,960
question of what does it take for people
51
00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:48,560
to give their attention and focus to
52
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,479
what really matters and how do we create
53
00:01:50,479 --> 00:01:52,240
an environment that facilitates the
54
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,399
capacity for focus.
55
00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:56,720
Wow. and and what a challenge in today's
56
00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,399
environment for leaders to be able to do
57
00:01:58,399 --> 00:02:01,200
just that. And uh you know it's also
58
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,200
really interesting to me though you've
59
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,040
probably applied that in the workspace
60
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,040
cuz and maybe you want to share a little
61
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,840
bit about that in in your role as as
62
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,440
head of people and culture. Can you talk
63
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,879
a little bit about that as well? Sure. I
64
00:02:14,879 --> 00:02:19,440
I I had for many many years um been
65
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,680
completely against ever going inside a
66
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,680
large corporation. Uh mainly because I
67
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,760
get to work with them and I see the
68
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,440
challenges of people being overwhelmed
69
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,040
by meetings, too many messages, the
70
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,360
volume of information coming up, the
71
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,920
bureaucracy. But uh this particular
72
00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:36,640
company approached me and they wanted to
73
00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:39,440
build a completely different culture. Um
74
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:40,959
particularly when set against the
75
00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:43,120
standards in aerospace which is the most
76
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,080
male-dominated um some of the worst in
77
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,920
terms of like work life balance, number
78
00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:50,319
of hours people work and how could we
79
00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:52,800
design a culture and a work experience
80
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,480
that actually didn't kill our people in
81
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,480
the process but still delivered um
82
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,280
incredible outcomes at a rapid pace.
83
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,519
Wow. So, so you're not just a guy who
84
00:03:01,519 --> 00:03:03,040
can talk about it, you've done it. And I
85
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,640
think that's really impressive and
86
00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:06,000
really important for the audience to
87
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,000
hear that. So, I had an opportunity to
88
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,519
hear you present on the role of human
89
00:03:09,519 --> 00:03:11,760
attention in organizational culture at a
90
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,360
conference recently and was really
91
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,519
struck by your passion for the work and
92
00:03:15,519 --> 00:03:17,200
the potential significance of your
93
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,680
research and focus on education. Would
94
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,280
you please share some of that with the
95
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,360
audience? Sure. I think the the
96
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,120
foundational premise and the lens
97
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,840
through which I approach leadership in
98
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,599
culture is by saying that all of the the
99
00:03:33,599 --> 00:03:36,640
general um undergirling best practices
100
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,879
seems to ignore what is the biggest
101
00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:40,959
single human constraint in the workplace
102
00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:44,480
today and in education. And so we uh
103
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,120
implement technology, we want to train
104
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,519
our people by asking them to do more and
105
00:03:49,519 --> 00:03:52,400
more. We throw more information at them.
106
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,959
all ignoring the fact that our most
107
00:03:54,959 --> 00:03:56,640
limited resource is not actually our
108
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,799
time, it is our attention. And in an
109
00:03:58,799 --> 00:04:01,760
information wealthy economy when we have
110
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,040
so much out there, human attention is
111
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,519
the single most limited resource. And so
112
00:04:07,519 --> 00:04:10,640
how do we think about reapproaching the
113
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,879
way we're asking people to lead, to
114
00:04:12,879 --> 00:04:15,920
work, to learn by actually understanding
115
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,320
how human attention works, right? You
116
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,239
know, it really struck me when when you
117
00:04:20,239 --> 00:04:21,680
were talking about that, what struck me
118
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,759
and it's influenced me a great deal
119
00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:25,680
since because I'm doing a great deal of
120
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,479
work around technology and it's it's my
121
00:04:28,479 --> 00:04:30,960
my new catchphrase has been how do we
122
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,560
make sure that technology is working for
123
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,280
us that we're not working for technology
124
00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:38,479
and because to it it becomes that piece
125
00:04:38,479 --> 00:04:40,160
of attention we start giving and we
126
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,160
don't intend it as leaders but it
127
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,000
certainly takes us there. I I gotta
128
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,440
imagine you've experienced that very
129
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,280
same thing. Very much so. And in many
130
00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,919
ways, for years and years, technology
131
00:04:51,919 --> 00:04:54,080
has been aiming to reduce the friction,
132
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,000
reduce the drag, make access to
133
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,479
everything easier and faster. And we
134
00:04:58,479 --> 00:05:00,320
definitely want that. Um that's
135
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,720
incredible what technology can do. But
136
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,040
what we've actually failed to understand
137
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,960
is that technology is a tool, not a
138
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,280
solution. And when it's not paired with
139
00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:12,160
healthy cultural norms and rhythms and
140
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,560
shared understandings like hey clear
141
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,400
ground rules what we end up doing is
142
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,800
just creating more chaos in the process
143
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,120
and you know we have too many too many
144
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,240
emails well we need slack now we have
145
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,639
just as many emails and we have slack
146
00:05:26,639 --> 00:05:29,280
now we need a new thing and so we end up
147
00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:32,080
continually making the same mistake in
148
00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,080
thinking that technology alone is going
149
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:35,680
to be the solution when in fact these
150
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,360
are cultural challenges.
151
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,440
Yeah, and I I can see that it it
152
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,360
absolutely was striking hearing you
153
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,199
speak and I think educators, especially
154
00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:46,160
education leaders need to hear your
155
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,000
message and and see how it contextually
156
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,000
applies to their work. Now, you've also
157
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,400
developed a tool that helps with this.
158
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,680
Can you speak a little bit about that
159
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,240
tool and how that works? Yeah, so I'll
160
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,160
I'll start with really the foundational
161
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,479
framework that we've developed over the
162
00:06:00,479 --> 00:06:02,639
last 15 years at Focus Wise, which is
163
00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:04,560
like what is it that creates people's
164
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,560
capacity for focus? And the reason that
165
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,360
this is so important is it's not new
166
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,000
research. In fact, in 1990, Chicks and
167
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,560
Mihi released a really a massive study
168
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,080
and book on this topic that the that
169
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,600
when we are in a state of focused
170
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,520
attention, um not only are we more
171
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,759
productive, more efficient, um but we're
172
00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:27,199
also more engaged, we enjoy it more. So
173
00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:29,520
one of the clearest indicators of if
174
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:30,720
people are going to be miserable and try
175
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,560
to avoid and uh find the nearest
176
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,199
distraction is um are we creating an
177
00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:37,039
environment and giving them the ability
178
00:06:37,039 --> 00:06:39,520
to have uninterrupted attention in a
179
00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,199
challenging direction. So can we create
180
00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:44,479
focus? And so the the framework is that
181
00:06:44,479 --> 00:06:46,560
in order to focus people, leaders,
182
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,120
companies, educators, students need
183
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,639
clarity. They need to know what's most
184
00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:52,479
important. They need capacity which
185
00:06:52,479 --> 00:06:53,840
means they need the space to actually
186
00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:56,479
get it done. They need cur curiosity
187
00:06:56,479 --> 00:06:58,240
because attention is actually wired to
188
00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,919
go towards the interesting. So it has to
189
00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:01,919
be interesting. And then they need
190
00:07:01,919 --> 00:07:04,080
community where other people because
191
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,240
attention is biologically social where
192
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,280
other people are are um aligned in terms
193
00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:10,800
of what deserves individual and shared
194
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,759
attention. So out of that framework uh
195
00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:15,520
it was actually in partnership with Nike
196
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,360
we developed the focus to challenge
197
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,080
which was really designed to say how do
198
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,400
we think of focus as a habit and a skill
199
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,720
that we can grow in people because as
200
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,319
you think about students that are going
201
00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:28,479
to need to constantly learn new and
202
00:07:28,479 --> 00:07:31,520
change. We're we can't have confidence
203
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:37,199
in the hard um categories of learning on
204
00:07:37,199 --> 00:07:38,800
the application of those moving forward.
205
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,280
We don't know if particular skills are
206
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,039
needed, but what we do know is that
207
00:07:43,039 --> 00:07:44,800
their capacity for focus will drive
208
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,759
their ability to adapt, grow, learn new
209
00:07:47,759 --> 00:07:49,759
things, continue to stay on top of the
210
00:07:49,759 --> 00:07:52,560
trends. And so being able to think about
211
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,240
growing this as a habit, as a primary
212
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,479
duty of education is actually one of the
213
00:07:56,479 --> 00:07:58,000
core functions that I think is often
214
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,240
missing in the narrative. Well, I mean,
215
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,080
you're making my heart pound to be
216
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:03,520
honest, hearing you speak this way
217
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,599
because that's that that is something
218
00:08:05,599 --> 00:08:07,599
that I think is deeply concerning about
219
00:08:07,599 --> 00:08:09,919
the whole standardization of education
220
00:08:09,919 --> 00:08:11,680
and how that works moving forward,
221
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,680
especially when you have this wealth of
222
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,720
information. And I I draw on a quote you
223
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,440
you uh gave in in your presentation when
224
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,039
you said you have when you have a wealth
225
00:08:21,039 --> 00:08:23,520
of information, you have a poverty of
226
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,080
attention, right? and and that really
227
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,840
struck me. That struck a strong chord
228
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,759
with me and what that means for our
229
00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:32,399
students who are in this huge what we
230
00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:34,240
literally call the information age. And
231
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,560
and so it's like that's deeply
232
00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:38,080
concerning. So I don't know if you have
233
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,680
a if you have a desire to kind of speak
234
00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:41,680
to what I just said there, but that
235
00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:44,159
whole idea from that quote I think
236
00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,320
should be like pasted all over schools
237
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,080
and perhaps with our legislators as
238
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,200
well. Yeah. I think if if we understand
239
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,760
the implications of us moving from an
240
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,440
information economy to an attention
241
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,040
economy, it it can actually reframe what
242
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:00,720
is what are the primary objectives and
243
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,000
what is the value proposition of
244
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,040
education. And it's not to say that uh
245
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,959
that sharing information and knowledge.
246
00:09:06,959 --> 00:09:08,959
I have kids that are in school right
247
00:09:08,959 --> 00:09:11,519
now. U my wife is an educator, my dad
248
00:09:11,519 --> 00:09:13,519
was an educator, my mom was an educator.
249
00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:15,120
Um it's not that we don't want them to
250
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,880
learn facts.
251
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,519
it is that we we can no longer believe
252
00:09:19,519 --> 00:09:21,760
that our primary goal is to give them
253
00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,160
the complete database of knowledge that
254
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,240
they're going to need to succeed. That
255
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,320
information is all very easy to find.
256
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,080
And so instead, what we have to think is
257
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,680
how do we give them the um capacity to
258
00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:36,320
be able to access information at the
259
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,200
right time and the attention habits to
260
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,680
be able to direct their focus towards
261
00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:44,720
things that are actually um that they
262
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,480
actually need to to learn. Right? So,
263
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,399
how do I go from thinking about not
264
00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:51,519
being information
265
00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:53,360
dumps like I'm throwing information at
266
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,200
them to instead what I'm doing is
267
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,279
cultivating their capacity to be able to
268
00:09:57,279 --> 00:10:00,080
learn on their own. Right. Right. And I
269
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,720
got to believe that that attention
270
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,040
somehow is attached to well you already
271
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,120
said this attached to curiosity and
272
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,800
curiosity is attached to a certain
273
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,279
unique human quality for each individual
274
00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,839
and that is their interest their
275
00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:17,519
aptitudes and how those things collide
276
00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:19,200
together to put them in a space to
277
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,920
really focus. That's right. And
278
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,440
honestly, I think if I were to even go
279
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,160
at the like foundational level of what
280
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,399
we're doing at Focuswise and why we're
281
00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:30,240
so passionate about attention and
282
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,839
organizational culture, it's because um
283
00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:35,519
fundamentally
284
00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:37,279
we are living in an age where technology
285
00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:39,680
is doing more and more and more for us.
286
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,560
And it's easy for us to not have a clear
287
00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:45,519
picture of what humans can do and how
288
00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:47,200
humans can contribute and what does it
289
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,399
really mean to be human. And I think um
290
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,160
as we step back and ask this question
291
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,240
like curiosity is our fundamental
292
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,480
differentiator. Technology isn't
293
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,279
connecting new unrelated ideas and
294
00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:02,399
creating the new and and but it's
295
00:11:02,399 --> 00:11:03,600
actually that the base system of
296
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,519
attention in our brain is wired
297
00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:07,519
fundamentally for curiosity. So how do
298
00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:10,560
we cultivate that and and realize that
299
00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:12,399
that's actually what humans bring to the
300
00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:15,440
table in an increasingly um automated
301
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,519
and AIdriven age? Wow. Very well said.
302
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:22,079
Now you're in your experience and I know
303
00:11:22,079 --> 00:11:24,640
you've dealt in companies, right? But
304
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,320
we're we're here to talk a little bit
305
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,079
about schools obviously. So in your
306
00:11:28,079 --> 00:11:29,519
experience if a district wanted to
307
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:31,839
engage in this work, what are some what
308
00:11:31,839 --> 00:11:33,360
are some of those predictable positive
309
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:34,880
outcomes that you would see you've seen
310
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,720
with companies that they would want to
311
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,320
make certain that their internal or
312
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,480
external communities were made aware of?
313
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,480
Yeah, I I think where we come in is the
314
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,800
concept and topic of corporate or
315
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,920
organizational culture isn't new. It's
316
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,279
that despite the emphasis on trying to
317
00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:56,079
do better culture, um we're seeing
318
00:11:56,079 --> 00:11:57,519
disengagement numbers go down. We're
319
00:11:57,519 --> 00:11:59,600
seeing retention numbers that people are
320
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,640
uh quitting in droves. The uh in fact a
321
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,360
recent study showed that 51.7% of people
322
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:06,959
currently in their jobs are looking
323
00:12:06,959 --> 00:12:08,399
actively and plan to move in the next
324
00:12:08,399 --> 00:12:12,000
six months. So we we really um insert
325
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,200
ourselves in a way that says how do we
326
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,200
actually have a really simple and clear
327
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,399
path to develop healthy culture and and
328
00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:22,399
it there's so much noise around it.
329
00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:24,560
People don't actually need nearly as
330
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,519
much of the distracting noise around
331
00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:31,519
happy hours and making sure we all uh
332
00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:33,920
can spout the mission statement. What
333
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,920
they actually need is they need clarity,
334
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,839
clear rules, clear rules, clear ground
335
00:12:37,839 --> 00:12:40,240
rules on how we're all engaging. They
336
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,720
need the they need the capacity to
337
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,079
actually do their job successfully,
338
00:12:44,079 --> 00:12:45,680
which means how do we instead of
339
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:47,680
continuing to throw more on them? They
340
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:49,279
need more training. They need more they
341
00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:50,560
need to learn more things. They got to
342
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,800
be up on the more process. There's new
343
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,560
there's new best practice in education,
344
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,440
right? How do we actually very actively
345
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,399
work to um pull back and give them more
346
00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:03,200
space and and make life easier rather
347
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,600
than harder for them? Uh they need to
348
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,360
have a culture of curiosity and the
349
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,519
reason that actually is um really comes
350
00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:11,279
down to how are we spotlighting growth
351
00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:14,320
and learning and um it's really
352
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:15,760
interesting research actually by Gert
353
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,720
Hoffstead on uncertainty avoidance. It
354
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,399
turns out curiosity is primarily
355
00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:22,720
cultivated at a team level. So the
356
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,040
teachers in a school's posture towards
357
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,639
curiosity and change actually it will
358
00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:31,120
it's contagious. It can create an entire
359
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,760
culture of resistance and antagonism
360
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,680
towards change. So curiosity and then
361
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:37,200
how do we create healthy community and
362
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,200
ultimately it's that we want everyone to
363
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,560
know very clearly what's in and what's
364
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:43,120
out. And so that process that we go
365
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,040
through on the one hand can be more of a
366
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,639
consulting executive leadership
367
00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:48,480
engagement, but then there's the focus
368
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,639
fit challenge which is great for like
369
00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:52,639
everyone to get on the same page over a
370
00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:55,120
six week period in five minute bursts,
371
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,760
right? Wow. That that that sounds really
372
00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,040
really amazing. Now you've done this
373
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,279
work with organizations. Um can you
374
00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:02,880
share a story about maybe one
375
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,920
organization where you've seen a a great
376
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,680
transformation occur as they've kind of
377
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,760
tried to follow down this pathway? And I
378
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,240
know it's always it's not a done point,
379
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,560
right? But as they pursued this, but you
380
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,880
better have some sort of measurable way
381
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:18,560
to say that our work did something
382
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,959
right. Um I you know I I have to be
383
00:14:20,959 --> 00:14:23,279
careful on names because of uh I'm not
384
00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:25,120
sure if I have permission, but I will
385
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,279
say I'll give two examples. I recently
386
00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:29,360
worked with one of the world's largest
387
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,800
banks in their in their private wealth
388
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,279
area. So these are basically uh people
389
00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:37,120
who manage really rich people's money
390
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,839
and they're kind of autonomous offices
391
00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:41,839
and what we're seeing happen is the
392
00:14:41,839 --> 00:14:43,360
practice leader at every single one of
393
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:44,959
these practices was just completely
394
00:14:44,959 --> 00:14:46,240
overwhelmed, high performer, high
395
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,000
achiever, burning out because they have
396
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,160
so much it's like they create success
397
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,560
and then they they always are at the
398
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,639
edge of their capabilities. And so we
399
00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:57,360
went through a a basically a one-day
400
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,600
program with their teams on the front
401
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,440
end, did a survey, understood what the
402
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,760
challenges were, helped them create a
403
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,480
clear game plan to to shift how they're
404
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,320
going about interacting with one another
405
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,160
and how they're going about dividing the
406
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,160
work. And what we found on the back end
407
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,399
was um I can't remember the exact data
408
00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:17,440
points but the the
409
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,480
like baseline of and the way the
410
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,600
question is actually asked is yesterday
411
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,199
how frequently did you experience
412
00:15:25,199 --> 00:15:26,720
moments of overwhelming stress because
413
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,079
like if you say generally am I
414
00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:29,440
overwhelmed people say no but if you
415
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,040
actually say say remember yesterday
416
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,480
right and it was like an 80% decrease in
417
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,160
that number and so that was something we
418
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,079
were really excited about. Uh the other
419
00:15:38,079 --> 00:15:41,440
one I'll do very briefly uh is a large
420
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,480
global um advanced engineered ceramics
421
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,800
company. They do basically supply for
422
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,079
semiconductors. their company was going
423
00:15:50,079 --> 00:15:53,120
through a transition of CEOs and they
424
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,120
had an really an old school corporate
425
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,320
culture and so the new CEO had uh
426
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,959
engaged us to actually say how do we how
427
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:03,199
do we keep the core components of what
428
00:16:03,199 --> 00:16:06,000
makes us special but how do we
429
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,240
communicate that we no longer want to be
430
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,480
bound to an older generation's view of
431
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,079
work. So really exciting. Probably my
432
00:16:14,079 --> 00:16:16,959
favorite project that we did in 2022 uh
433
00:16:16,959 --> 00:16:19,040
was getting to see the leadership's buy
434
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,959
in knowing that we were actually asking
435
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:22,959
them to work really hard to change old
436
00:16:22,959 --> 00:16:25,279
school habits, but seeing viscerally
437
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:28,399
over a 3-day period resistance to like
438
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:30,000
excitement about what this actually
439
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,000
could mean for them and their people. Um
440
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,920
and and so that is another project that
441
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,720
I found to be really life-giving.
442
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,480
And I love the timelines you're sharing
443
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,120
here. These are not like long timelines
444
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,320
of of uh implementation processes that
445
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,560
and again kind of that new attention
446
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,079
focus that could be problematic
447
00:16:48,079 --> 00:16:49,680
obviously. So I I think that's
448
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,240
absolutely amazing. Now um obviously I'd
449
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:53,519
love to talk with you more but we're
450
00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:55,279
we're reaching the end of this uh time
451
00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:56,959
period. I mean it's just been an amazing
452
00:16:56,959 --> 00:16:58,959
conversation. But if a district or
453
00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:00,480
partner were interested in exploring
454
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,320
more deeply into this work, how would
455
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,000
they go about contacting you or your
456
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,000
organization and arranging for a deeper
457
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,799
conversation? Yeah. Um, our website is
458
00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:10,880
an easy place to get an overview of of
459
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,439
work and that's just focuswise.com. All
460
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:16,079
one word, focuswise. But I also know
461
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,000
sometimes nobody likes to fill out a
462
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,280
form and so this is just an easy email.
463
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,400
It would just be cfocuswise.com.
464
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,400
That is I'll say that is an email that
465
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,880
officially gets into to me, but there is
466
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,240
a filter so it might send you to the
467
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,400
right person or it might be me. But see
468
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,000
us at focuswise.com would be a good
469
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,080
place to start. Well, Kurt, I really
470
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:39,600
appreciate that and I want to thank you
471
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,880
for being a part of the important work
472
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,640
of supporting our students in schools
473
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:43,919
and I want to thank you for your
474
00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:46,160
participation in a learn podcast. Thanks
475
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,470
for having me on.
476
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:51,849
