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I want to welcome our audience to this
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learned podcast it is in these podcasts
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to learn what you to meet experts that
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can help you and your work as school
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leaders suppress Partners in the
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education landscape
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the topic for this podcast is iterative
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review process and our guest is Mark
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gerner CEO of ratan on the learn website
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you will find on the research page under
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the Coe of innovation and the element of
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iterative review process research in
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this area being discussed along with
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potential resources to access
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Mark I want to welcome you to the learn
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podcast it's good to have you here to
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speak with us about this important topic
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now I know you have an extensive
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research and work background in the area
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of iterative review process with a
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special focus on design thinking would
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you please share with the audience some
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of that background and experience you
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bet thank thanks Dave for having me uh
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on your podcast
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um so rad and is a design thinking firm
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and we work with a very wide range of
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clients much of them are many of them
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are Tech clients who are in the middle
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of what we call replexity Rapid
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complexity very fast change uh and we
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have developed an approach that allows
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organizations to implement change in
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iterative ways but stay focused on their
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end goals so when we talk about design
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thinking we talk about starting at the
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end which is the outcome that we want
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and working our way backwards in our
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design and then moving forward one step
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at a time in our planning and
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implementation well and Rad Rad and is a
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relatively new Organization for you but
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the work you've been doing is not new
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how long have you been doing this kind
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of work
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uh most of my life I have a very
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eclectic background I uh started out a
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life as a brand manager excuse me a
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marketing in international marketing and
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I moved from there and for about 10
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years I ran software firms and after
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that I had a friend who did educational
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architecture who asked me to come run
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one of his offices uh for a year and I
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did that and fell in love with the
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design process and architecture
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especially as it applies to education
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but the fact is I've worked with
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Industries uh that are all over the map
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from Healthcare to architecture to high
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tech and what you began to see when you
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work with a myriad of clients like that
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are patterns that transcend the
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differences of each industry and are
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more tied to human behavior and how we
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actually make things happen so what rad
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and is about is this culmination of
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learning how different kinds of
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organizations have implemented change
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successfully and the kind of thinking
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that that takes and then we help
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organizations right now what the past
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five years has been primarily Tech firms
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who are well-funded startups move into
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the marketplace in a very expansive way
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and still maintain their focus on the
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value that they bring
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yeah I I'm just really excited I've had
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a number of conversations with you about
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this I'm really excited about the
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opportunities for school districts to
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really enter into this kind of design
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thinking process and iterative review
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process that you have used in in other
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organizations and in different kind of
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areas and I know as you've done that
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you've you've
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experienced a great amount of research
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in that process you have key insights we
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can't discuss all that today obviously
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but I'd like you to share with the
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audience just some some key insights or
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information about the research that's
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out there around design thinking and
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iterative review process well I think
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the thing that
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um is most relevant to schools today
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especially post covered but I think this
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applied even prior to that is
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uh we talk about change as discontinuous
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change there are changes that are
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continuous and we see the next step and
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we it's logical for us how we go from
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the step that we're in to the next step
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but when life takes a big right turn or
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a big left turn and suddenly we're in a
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place that we've not been before as an
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organization it can be very disorienting
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so the the thoughts that we have around
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and the research that we have around how
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our brain works when we're confronted
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with rapid change that's unpredictable
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uh I think is more relevant than ever
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for schools because there's no
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organization that I know of that has
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more loud voices speaking into it as to
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what that school district should become
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so when you have that when you have
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those kinds of constituencies that uh
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may not understand fully all the changes
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that you're making it does make any kind
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of implementation difficult
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so what we do rad really means from the
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root and what we do is we go to the root
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of the issues that your school district
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for instance is facing what is unique
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about the experience that you're being
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asked to bring based on the demographics
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brace based on uh the location based on
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so many things that are in flux how do
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you stay true to the ultimate intention
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of your organization in this case a
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school that's providing learning
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experiences while there's so much going
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on around it that is changing
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so we talk about if you're going to make
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iterative changes which is the only way
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to make changes uh successfully you have
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to stay focused on this ultimate
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intention so we spend a good deal of
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investment with organizations defining
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that intention and we talk about it in
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terms of experience so for instance
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in a school what is the experience
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that we want the student to have what is
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the experience we want the teacher to
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have and that's not just a surface try
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question I mean we go with a great deal
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a great deal of explanation and
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description about these experiences so
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that we can stay focused on them once
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we've done that and there's Clarity with
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your core team about what that
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experience needs to be then we could
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talk about different expressions of that
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experience the building the curriculum
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delivery all the things that it takes
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the communication plans that it takes to
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do those things but we're all rooted in
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that same experience that we're trying
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to create
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wow and and you know there's it's true
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that those experiences may be common to
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some degree across the districts but
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there are going to be to your point some
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uniquenesses and that review process
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will pull that out I'm assuming right
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it'll just kind of reveal those things
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that are really important
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I'm sorry David yes we talk about that
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in terms of the experiences that you
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bring the example I use is I love coffee
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and I love coffee shops and coffee shops
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all do the same thing right but they
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don't all create the same experience
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when they do it and most of
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organizational design and Effectiveness
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training that I'm aware of focuses too
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much on what we do rather than the
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experience we cause while we do it so
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for instance in branding that's how you
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brand you brand based on the experience
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not on what you do in a school district
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you're doing a form of branding with
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your community you're positioning
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yourself in their minds
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as to what is the experience that we're
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going to bring for your children
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and that's very important that we not
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explain that in terms of what we do
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because what we do is a is a means to an
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end the end is the experience that we
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want the end state that we want for our
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Learners once we've done what we've done
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wow I I just find that fascinating and I
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think districts would find that
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fascinating as well now if a district
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wanted to engage in this work what are
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some of those kind of opportunities what
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I like to call predictable positive
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outcomes that they would want to make
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certain they communicated to their
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boards to their internal and external
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communities before they even got started
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um I think it's important that first of
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all you communicate everybody says this
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of course but you communicate very
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robustly throughout your process what's
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different about the approach that we
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take is at the beginning that's a very
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internal process it's the stewards of
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that school district the people who are
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in leadership
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are going to sit and represent the
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outcomes that they understand that these
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students need but to do that with an
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outside constituency takes a lot of
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participation and communication so often
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in our early workshops that we do to
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bring out this experience to elicit it
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from our clients we invite them to bring
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customers and we would invite school
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districts to bring people from the
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community all kinds of constituencies
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into the conversation
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so that when someday these ideas become
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implementation plans you have people
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from every point of view every major
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point of view of that implementation
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who've been involved from the beginning
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they weren't brought in at
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implementation to implement something
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they don't robustly understand
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so bringing people down into the root
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thinking gives them a level of ownership
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of the ideas and the ability to
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communicate that back to certain
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constituencies so I think it's very
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important that you not rush that first
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step which is everybody wants a vision
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statement everybody you know wants
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values listed all these things and it's
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all those things are highly meaningful
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to the people who created them but
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they're not not as meaningful to the
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people who receive them later
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so that's the first thing is involve
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people and communicate and bring what we
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call Clarity it's one of our five c
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words it's Clarity and one of the things
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we say about Clarity is that it takes
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dialogue I'm not clear unless I've been
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fed back what I thought I said to you
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and when the more expanse of that
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conversation becomes the more
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challenging that becomes so it's very
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important that at the beginning of this
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process when you're thinking through the
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desired outcomes that you have good
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strong Clarity with your core team
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because they're going to translate that
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Clarity back to their constituencies
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it's almost like dialects of a language
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we're going to say this a little
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different in each context but we want to
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communicate that same thing back and so
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we talk about the investment that you
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make up front pays off multiple times
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when you get into implementation
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yeah it strikes me just listening to you
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that obviously you're building a a high
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level of transparency in the process but
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through that you're building really
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strong relationships with your community
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and then down the road as you said
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you're creating a sense of ownership so
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it's not just a District's kind of view
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of what the experience of the child the
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teacher should be but it's also the
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community's view of what that experience
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should be and I can't help but leave but
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that would have great value to any
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organization
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now if that being said and you kind of
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gave a little bit of a cautionary tale
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but I'm going to ask you to expand a
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little bit what are those kind of
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implementation barriers that all
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districts should be aware of if they're
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to go down this pathway
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well uh there's a quote maybe we talked
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about in one of our conversations that I
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use a lot with clients and it's from
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Machiavelli and it says change has no
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constituency
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now that we can map the brain and see it
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we actually see that that's true when my
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brain receives a pattern that it's not
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familiar with the first thing I wanted
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to do is reject that pattern
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purely because my brain is not used to
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that and so when you bring change to an
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organization when you bring change to
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education when you bring change to a
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community
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expect resistance and don't see that as
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a bad sign because resistance is exactly
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what will happen because it's the way
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our brains work and it's much more about
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how we work through resistance with
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folks and bring Clarity to them so they
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then can create new patterns in their
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brains to accept changes uh
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and so many times when we were in life
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when we see resistance we get
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discouraged and so if you're
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implementing change we tell our clients
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expect resistance plan for it and plan
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for how you will overcome it but it's
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not a sign that things aren't going well
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and often when we when clients are about
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to turn the corner
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on a change they're making is when they
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feel most discouraged because that's
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when the resistance can sometimes get
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the most intense but resistance is not
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good or bad it's just there and we deal
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with it but we expect it
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so it's interesting Mark that research
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out there about patterns in the brain
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and how that becomes somewhat fixed and
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change obviously disrupts that and
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creates a little bit of resistance so
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I'm guessing what you do as an
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organization is really help people
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understand how they can create new
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patterns for people that they become
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comfortable with and and that's that
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would be amazingly helpful for districts
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especially in this environment where
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changes in inevitable reality I like to
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say changes like death and taxes it's
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just a certain and um and and so I think
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it's it's something that could be really
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really powerful now is there an
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organization or a district you would
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highlight that has done this work well
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well most of our clients uh recently
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have been Tech clients and without I I
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can't really name names but what I'll
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say is the clients who do this well
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um they
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they understand that it's not a straight
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line change is not a straight line the
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change involves emotional catharsis
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really especially if it's a large change
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and so what they do is they focus on
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facts they focus on their goals they
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stay attuned to their goals those
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ultimate in games that they've defined
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for themselves and then they begin to
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clarify things for people in order to
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overcome resistance so involvement
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clarification
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uh toward the end goal pointing people
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to that North Star saying this is
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exactly why we're doing what we're doing
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we're mining people over and over uh I'd
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say the people who are most successful
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are the ones who don't get tired of
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communicating that in multiple ways to
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multiple constituencies all the time
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communication is a very exhausting
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process sometimes as a leader because we
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tend to being a better in a different
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place with change than some of the folks
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that were leading but the willingness to
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engage people in their resistance not as
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a negative but as a part of their
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processing and continually doing that
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and continually bringing people along
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and continually involving them those are
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it's perseverance in the end it's
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perseverance through the change that
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makes some organizations successful in
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some organizations less successful
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interesting now if a district or partner
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wanted to uh explore this work more
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deeply how would they go about
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contacting you and arranging for deeper
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conversations well in the very near
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future we're very excited we're about to
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partner with an organization and create
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an entity for this just specifically for
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K-12 and it's and very specifically for
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creating learning environments uh uh for
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districts in the meantime the best way
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is to reach me it's Mark at rad and
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r-a-d-a-n-d.com and I'd be happy to sit
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down and talk with someone about how we
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can do this for schools I spent
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15 years doing architectural and other
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kinds of design and have worked with
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schools all over the world and so we're
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excited to be back in this space we are
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it's a meaningful space to be it's a
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challenging space and we're excited to
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help
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I'm excited for districts to get this
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experience it's it's a unique experience
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in our world having LED districts for a
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number of years I've not had this kind
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of opportunity and I think it uh will
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reveal some positive opportunities for
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districts to to manage the change that
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is inevitable in in our world these days
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and so I want to thank you Mark uh for
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being a part of this important work of
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supporting our students in schools and I
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want to thank you for your participation
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in a learned podcast well thanks for the
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invitation Dave
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