Kevin Stoller, CEO of K12, shares how better learning environments and stakeholder engagement improve student outcomes and school culture.

1 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:05,040 I want to welcome our audience to this 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,359 learn podcast. It is in these podcasts 3 00:00:07,359 --> 00:00:08,880 that learn wants you to meet experts 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,320 that can help you in your work as school 5 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,160 leaders or perhaps partners in the 6 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,799 education landscape. The topic for this 7 00:00:14,799 --> 00:00:16,560 podcast is learning environments and our 8 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,039 guest is Kevin Stler, co-founder and CEO 9 00:00:19,039 --> 00:00:22,000 of K12. On the learn website, you will 10 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,720 find on the research page under the COE 11 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,720 sustainability and the element of 12 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,480 learning environments research in this 13 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:29,840 area being discussed along with 14 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,800 potential resources to access. Kevin, I 15 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,079 want to welcome you to the learn 16 00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:36,079 podcast. It's really good to have you 17 00:00:36,079 --> 00:00:37,600 here to speak with us about this really 18 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,079 important topic and I know you have an 19 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:41,520 extensive research and work background 20 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,040 in the area of learning environments, 21 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,239 but would you please share with the 22 00:00:44,239 --> 00:00:45,680 audience some of that background and 23 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,920 experience? For sure. I appreciate you 24 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,120 having me on here. What we do is at K12 25 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,039 our main goal is to create better 26 00:00:53,039 --> 00:00:54,879 learning environments. So at the end of 27 00:00:54,879 --> 00:00:57,120 the day we are a furniture dealership 28 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,800 that we work around the country and we 29 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,239 always are trying to figure out what's 30 00:01:00,239 --> 00:01:03,760 the best mix of furniture and space to 31 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,320 accommodate the learning and the goals 32 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:08,320 and the pedigogy that's intended of that 33 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:10,720 space. And so that's really kind of the 34 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,280 the mission base behind us as a company. 35 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,439 And a lot of it came from when we wrote 36 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:18,640 a book back in 2017 about the practical 37 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,400 guide of how to create better learning 38 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,640 environments. It was named creating 39 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,720 better learning environments and and it 40 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,119 was looking at that of saying like okay 41 00:01:27,119 --> 00:01:28,799 there's research being done. There's a 42 00:01:28,799 --> 00:01:30,159 lot of research that's done and we're 43 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:33,040 continuing to see a lot more since 2017. 44 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,960 But we've seen it on a practical use 45 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,240 like in the field in schools seeing the 46 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,920 difference that it makes for a teacher 47 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,640 and for a student when they're actually 48 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,960 there using these spaces different from 49 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:46,640 kind of the traditional straight rows 50 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,799 front of the classroom environment. And 51 00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:50,399 that shift you've seen really in the 52 00:01:50,399 --> 00:01:52,560 last many years, last five, six years, 53 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,399 you've seen a shift from that just we're 54 00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:56,159 throwing furniture in a classroom and 55 00:01:56,159 --> 00:01:58,799 and not really thinking about its part 56 00:01:58,799 --> 00:02:01,520 in the educational learning process. 57 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,439 Absolutely. And it it it was back when 58 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:05,040 we were kind of talking about it, you 59 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,520 know, 10 12 years ago. It it really was 60 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,039 I always talk about the product life 61 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,599 cycle where we that curve that goes we 62 00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:13,440 had the really early adopters, you know, 63 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,920 like the trend setters. Um and then, you 64 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:18,560 know, we moved into the early majority. 65 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,640 I would say right now it it's definitely 66 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:23,280 the majority. There's enough research 67 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:24,480 out there. There's enough people that 68 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:25,760 have seen and used that it's actually 69 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,520 really rare that somebody would do a 70 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,440 traditional environment now, but it 71 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,840 still happens. And I I always ask a 72 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,920 question too of people of trying to find 73 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:35,840 out like what's their sense of how many 74 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,680 classrooms in America are still set up 75 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,400 in that traditional one. I don't know if 76 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,680 you would if you have a guess. I've 77 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,440 asked this over probably no idea. It it 78 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,760 still seems like that average comes that 79 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,480 they're still about 75% of classrooms in 80 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,720 America are still set up in the way 81 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,959 we've seen them perceived in TV and 82 00:02:54,959 --> 00:02:57,440 movies and everywhere else for you know 83 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,200 and and the way it was when we went 84 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,239 through school. So pictures yeah 85 00:03:02,239 --> 00:03:04,239 comparing the 1950s to now and there's 86 00:03:04,239 --> 00:03:05,519 not really much change there other than 87 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:08,000 a little technology, right? But uh you 88 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,440 you've been really dealing in this a 89 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:10,879 long time now. How many districts have 90 00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:12,879 you worked with over that time? You 91 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:14,800 probably have lost count, I'm sure, but 92 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,640 it's a number. We actually we track it 93 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:18,720 by student. So, that's the one that we 94 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,400 look at. We have a company goal. We want 95 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,480 to impact 10 million students learning 96 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,440 environments. And uh and we are 97 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,920 currently about 600,000. So, we got a 98 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:31,120 long way to go, but but still um 600,000 99 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,360 rep represents a a lot of students and 100 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,239 teachers and and when we look at that um 101 00:03:36,239 --> 00:03:38,319 you know, it's it's hundreds of projects 102 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:41,440 around the country and um you know and 103 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,840 it it is amazing to see what happens 104 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,920 when those spaces change and I can 105 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,519 definitely talk about that a lot more 106 00:03:49,519 --> 00:03:51,920 too and I imagine it's a breadth of 107 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,680 different kinds of districts, right? 108 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,599 from small districts to large districts, 109 00:03:55,599 --> 00:03:58,239 from urban to suburban and so on and so 110 00:03:58,239 --> 00:04:00,560 forth. Right. Correct. Yeah. And uh and 111 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,640 and I think kind of the mis the the the 112 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,480 perception that's out there is that this 113 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,640 is only like the wealthier districts can 114 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,400 can do this. And I would say our 115 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:11,680 experience is actually the complete 116 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,959 opposite. Um, the ones that are that 117 00:04:14,959 --> 00:04:17,440 that do have kind of the the lowest 118 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,880 income areas are the ones that honestly 119 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,280 we've seen them make a bigger dent in 120 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:25,280 this and move it toward towards it 121 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:27,120 faster. I mean, there's ones like Wilson 122 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,600 Elementary School District in uh 123 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,320 downtown Phoenix area to Gary, Indiana 124 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,639 was one that typically, you know, that 125 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:36,400 you're not viewing these as wealthy 126 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,000 areas, but they have really um taken 127 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,440 somebody in the district and we always 128 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,960 talk about we attract those change 129 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,280 makers, that one person that that one 130 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:46,720 champion that gets in there has a 131 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,240 passion, says I know there's a better 132 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,880 way to do this and they drive that 133 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,360 change and how much impact that makes. 134 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,199 and that passion is driven by research 135 00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:56,880 and obviously you as a company try to 136 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,880 bring that research to bear when you 137 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,479 meet with districts. Can you talk a 138 00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:02,479 little bit about what you would see as 139 00:05:02,479 --> 00:05:04,320 the key pieces of information or 140 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:05,840 research that you would want districts 141 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:08,000 and to know and the listeners to be 142 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,160 aware of? Yeah, so we I always want to 143 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,160 be careful. We do not do the research. 144 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,000 So, we're looking at what's out there. 145 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,120 So, we're not the ones that are 146 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,639 compiling. We're the ones that are that 147 00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:18,320 are seeing it and we're utilizing that 148 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,039 as as we go. But um some of the research 149 00:05:21,039 --> 00:05:24,320 that we we see is um that the learning 150 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,680 environment can have a positive 25% 151 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,560 impact or a negative 25% impact. And I 152 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,400 think that's a big thing to realize is 153 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,880 that if we don't do anything, most of 154 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,160 the learning environments that we have 155 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,600 right there are actually causing more 156 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,840 harm in there. Some of the other studies 157 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,840 that we look at are student engagement 158 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:44,720 and we also look at um at the attendance 159 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,039 rates. That's a big one for us is we 160 00:05:47,039 --> 00:05:48,720 want to make sure that when we're 161 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,080 looking at that and again this is 162 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,520 working with districts and looking at 163 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,600 other research that these spaces should 164 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,039 be creating environments where they want 165 00:05:55,039 --> 00:05:56,320 to come to school and they want to be 166 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,800 engaged. And if we're doing that we feel 167 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,560 like we're we're doing our job because 168 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,320 really for us when we're talking to 169 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,160 districts and and um and uh architects 170 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,160 who do a lot of work handinhand with the 171 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,800 architects it's it's looking at that and 172 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,720 saying what what this can actually do. 173 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,000 It's going to increase student 174 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,720 engagement. it's going to increase the 175 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,960 the attendance rate, but it's also 176 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,360 looking on a recruiting standpoint, 177 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,160 students and teachers. Recruiting and 178 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,720 retention is a big piece of that. Um, 179 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,120 and then the third piece that I really 180 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,800 want to bring more focus to and talk 181 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,120 about even more is that we need to be 182 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,199 taking this message outside of the walls 183 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:37,440 of education into more of culture and 184 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,479 into the communities because they 185 00:06:40,479 --> 00:06:42,880 sometimes do not see this. And the more 186 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,560 we can be telling the stories and 187 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,400 showing them the work we're doing, cuz 188 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,479 at the end of the day, they don't know 189 00:06:48,479 --> 00:06:50,560 about the certain curriculum or the way 190 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,000 you're teaching certain things, they 191 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,199 just know if they walk through the 192 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:55,520 school, they say, "Oh, that looks like 193 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,000 it was when I was there." Or, "Oh, wow. 194 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,199 That's different. They're doing 195 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:00,800 something different, right?" And and 196 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,039 they can they can actually tangibly see 197 00:07:03,039 --> 00:07:04,800 the difference. 198 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,720 Well, you kind of segueed nicely into my 199 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,639 next question, which centers around if 200 00:07:08,639 --> 00:07:10,560 if as a district you were going to move 201 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,479 from that traditional kind of experience 202 00:07:12,479 --> 00:07:14,800 of furniture and and really, you know, 203 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,880 try to, I guess, take advantage of the 204 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,080 research that is out there and say, 205 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,199 "We're going to do things differently 206 00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:20,960 for our kids." You still have to 207 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,240 communicate that to your internal and 208 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,479 external communities. You've suggested 209 00:07:24,479 --> 00:07:26,400 some of it, but what would you want to 210 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,160 make certain that was communicated as a 211 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,759 predictable, positive outcome if they 212 00:07:29,759 --> 00:07:31,039 were to go down this pathway with their 213 00:07:31,039 --> 00:07:33,120 internal and external communities? Yeah. 214 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,199 Yeah. So when when I look at it and I 215 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:36,720 talked to a lot of people, part of this 216 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,560 was interviewing people for the book we 217 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,800 wrote in 2017 and then it kind of 218 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,479 transitioned into a podcast that we've 219 00:07:42,479 --> 00:07:46,000 been doing since 2017. And I get to get 220 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,440 the opportunity to talk to a lot of 221 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,240 people. And one of those things that 222 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,360 that kind of I've taken from that is 223 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,599 that I've actually ranked from these 224 00:07:55,599 --> 00:07:57,280 conversations kind of so more of like 225 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,840 informal research is that I really think 226 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,160 there's three things that are probably 227 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,039 most important in making this change 228 00:08:05,039 --> 00:08:06,560 within education, the positive change 229 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,240 that we talk about that I think everyone 230 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,720 recognizes that the way these schools 231 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,720 are performing in our country are are 232 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,400 not at the level that we all want them 233 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,000 to be. And that's not to discount any of 234 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,759 the work that anyone is doing as leaders 235 00:08:19,759 --> 00:08:22,400 or teachers. I have a tremendous amount 236 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,560 of respect of how much how hard they're 237 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,479 working and and things. But when we 238 00:08:26,479 --> 00:08:28,240 really look at it, I've ranked it. I 239 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,160 feel like school leadership is probably 240 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,719 the number one fastest most impactful 241 00:08:32,719 --> 00:08:35,200 thing that we can do to make positive 242 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,080 change in this country. Um, and then 243 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,000 that leads into number two is culture. I 244 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,839 think there's just the leaders affect 245 00:08:43,839 --> 00:08:46,080 the culture internally, but then like I 246 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,040 mentioned externally as well. Um, we're 247 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,519 not telling the stories enough too many 248 00:08:51,519 --> 00:08:53,839 times that it's only being communicated 249 00:08:53,839 --> 00:08:56,640 the negative things into pop culture or 250 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,120 the local media or national media. It's 251 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,959 always negative instead of positive. And 252 00:09:00,959 --> 00:09:02,399 there's a lot of positive that we could 253 00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:05,200 be telling. And the third one is is 254 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,320 space. So obviously we're we're in kind 255 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,959 of that that world of space, but I 256 00:09:10,959 --> 00:09:12,160 really think it's the third most 257 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,440 important thing. And the reason why is 258 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,360 that if a school leader really wants to 259 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,920 change that culture or change anything, 260 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,320 you have to change the space. I just we 261 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,320 have not seen an instance where somebody 262 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:23,920 does want to come in and completely 263 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,839 change everything and then they send 264 00:09:25,839 --> 00:09:27,279 their teachers and their students back 265 00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:31,200 into spaces that are not made to 266 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,440 accommodate that. It's a reflection of 267 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,200 the culture and the the experience you 268 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,560 expect children to have within the 269 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,560 cultural develop cultural space you've 270 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:40,240 developed or want to develop. Right. 271 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,839 Correct. And so I think that's really 272 00:09:41,839 --> 00:09:43,920 important. So if we're if we're being 273 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,680 very effective as leaders, you're 274 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:47,120 telling me that it's key that leaders 275 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,440 engage in this research, really focus on 276 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,360 the culture that they want to create and 277 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:52,880 then communicate that out and create the 278 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,959 space that that goes along with that. 279 00:09:54,959 --> 00:09:56,320 And you'll have a high level of 280 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,680 engagement on the part of your community 281 00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:59,120 if that's the case. of the community. 282 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,800 And then I think we need to recognize 283 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,920 one of the biggest things that's going 284 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,160 on right now is teacher recruitment 285 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,399 retention. Sure. That's going on whether 286 00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:07,920 they're leaving their district or 287 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,640 leaving education in general. And I 288 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,320 think this is one of those things that 289 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,560 um it's sometimes viewed as oh that's an 290 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:17,440 expense that's like something that like 291 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,920 that um you know isn't really that 292 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,399 important. But I will tell you when you 293 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:24,399 are working in a space for eight ten 294 00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:26,720 hours a day that space is really 295 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,200 important to for those for those 296 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,680 teachers and for the learners. And if we 297 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,519 don't address that it's it makes it 298 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:35,680 really hard to be hey you come work here 299 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:37,760 we have a great environment you know 300 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,200 we're doing all these great things and 301 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,440 then say oh here you go here's a space 302 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,959 that hasn't been touched for 30 years. 303 00:10:42,959 --> 00:10:45,040 And it is kind of sad that we accept 304 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,120 that as a part of a business proposition 305 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,440 that businesses want to create an uh 306 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,000 spaces for their employees that attract 307 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,519 them to want to be in that business. But 308 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:54,480 we don't think about that for our 309 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,480 children and our teachers as much as we 310 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:57,680 should. Yeah. And think of what's 311 00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:59,760 happened in co here too. We found you 312 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,120 know in the corporate world how much 313 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,040 people really enjoy working from home 314 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,560 and being able to control the 315 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:06,160 environment that they work in and now 316 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,279 that there's a fight they don't even 317 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:09,680 want to come back into the office. And 318 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:11,120 kind of the same thing here. If we're 319 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:12,560 not creating these environments where 320 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:15,120 the teachers want to come work and 321 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,519 support the type of teaching that they 322 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:20,240 want to be doing, then you know it's as 323 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,200 leaders, it's, you know, it's kind of on 324 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:24,480 the leadership to be able to take that 325 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,880 on and say, "Hey, we we care about this 326 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,240 and we want to make that positive 327 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,600 impact." Yeah, that sounds right. Now in 328 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,279 your experience and you have a lot of 329 00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:34,800 experience in doing this kind of 330 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,640 transformational work within districts 331 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,800 and school buildings. 332 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,200 What have you seen to as the greatest 333 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,440 implementation barrier to the work? 334 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,760 Yeah. So the the biggest thing is that 335 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,000 there's not a wellthoughtout process to 336 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,000 go into it. Um one of the things and and 337 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,079 what we're doing isn't super unique. So 338 00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:55,600 I don't want to say like our way is the 339 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,200 only way. Most people that are doing 340 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,120 this have some type of process they're 341 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,800 doing it. And sometimes we do it on our 342 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,200 own if a school district contacts us 343 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,519 directly or most times we're doing this 344 00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:08,560 in conjunction with an architect um and 345 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:10,320 going in. But there is a there is a 346 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:11,680 process that you have to go through to 347 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:13,440 get the key stakeholders involvement 348 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,519 early on. We call it a guided 349 00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:17,760 collaboration workshop where we get the 350 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,480 key stakeholders which is typically lead 351 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,519 the leadership. So if superintendent or 352 00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:24,800 somebody from representing the 353 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,279 superintendent is there, curriculum, 354 00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:28,880 technology, 355 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,480 facilities, 356 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,720 um teacher representatives, and then we 357 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,240 also recommend having student 358 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,959 representatives as part of that early on 359 00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:39,680 to kind of get get the concerns, get the 360 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:41,519 buy in to really be able to do this 361 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:44,000 because every project that we do is 362 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,240 going to be custom. There's no cookie 363 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,639 cutter approach to this. So being able 364 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:50,320 to get them early on is honestly the 365 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,240 most important thing. And then being 366 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,839 able to do it early enough in the 367 00:12:53,839 --> 00:12:57,040 process that allows you to then 368 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,360 do either pilot classrooms to test or 369 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,279 spaces to test it out before you make 370 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:04,160 investments on on a whole school or a 371 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,399 whole district. Being able to go visit 372 00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:09,279 other schools. Being able to go to like 373 00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:11,920 conferences or or uh conventions where 374 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,320 you can see things and actually actually 375 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,720 get them in use. or um actually going to 376 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,480 the manufacturers to be able to tour 377 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,880 their facilities and and understand what 378 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,880 are the right things. And if they don't 379 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,880 do that early enough, that's where 380 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,880 things kind of fall apart. And then you 381 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,279 end up trying to do something kind of 382 00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:31,680 last minute. You don't have buy in. So 383 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:33,360 whatever you put in there, the teachers 384 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:34,880 are going to be like, "Wow, did you pick 385 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,560 this? Why did you pick this? Why did you 386 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,480 change my space without asking for my 387 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,519 input?" So it's really it's earlier the 388 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:43,680 better getting those key stakeholders at 389 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:46,560 the table. And that's um why we always 390 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,480 we are always recommending as one of the 391 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,000 first steps is to do a guided 392 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,600 collaboration workshop with the key 393 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,000 stakeholders. Well, wonderful. Kevin, so 394 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,760 could you kind of tell the audience is 395 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,320 there a district or a campus where you 396 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,079 have seen this and what have you seen as 397 00:14:00,079 --> 00:14:02,720 the outcome of that? Yeah, I I'll talk 398 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,120 about a couple that are a little more 399 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,880 recent. Um, I'll do and again these this 400 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,880 is kind of indication of this isn't just 401 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,519 the wealthy areas even though you know 402 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:15,519 we if you go to a you know like a 403 00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:17,279 private school or an independent school 404 00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:19,519 that is kind of more wealthy typically 405 00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:21,199 they do have spaces that look like this 406 00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:23,440 but Gary Indiana has been one of my 407 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,880 favorite ones. Um it's a district that's 408 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,440 typically known as one of the one of the 409 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,240 rougher areas um in in regards to safety 410 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,760 also in regards to to scores and things 411 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,279 to the point where it actually got taken 412 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:44,079 over by the state of Indiana um because 413 00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:46,160 they weren't performing at the level 414 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,720 that were was required by the state. But 415 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,560 what they've done is they've taken 416 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,079 spaces that were existing um they were 417 00:14:54,079 --> 00:14:56,399 not able to afford to do all new 418 00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:58,320 construction, but they said this is 419 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,079 important. This is something that we 420 00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:01,600 feel like all of our teachers and our 421 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,560 students need. And we took a very 422 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,040 traditional school environment, you 423 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,920 know, classrooms, you know, like what 424 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,279 you would expect, you know, like those 425 00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:13,519 rectangular classrooms of every building 426 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:16,000 that you would think what a school looks 427 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,560 like. and the ones I went to. Yeah, we 428 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,959 completely changed it out and they did 429 00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:24,320 it over winter break and didn't tell the 430 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,079 the students that it was coming. So, 431 00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:27,600 they did get teacher involvement early 432 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,600 on. We did some pilot classrooms and got 433 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,320 feedback, but we did it all over winter 434 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,639 break and then the students came back 435 00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:38,160 and just the immediate reaction to say 436 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,440 like, "Wow, you did this for us." Um and 437 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,040 there was so much thought into it that 438 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,639 we were creating different zones and 439 00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:46,399 different options for the students. So 440 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:47,920 instead of just having their chair in 441 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,759 their desk, we now had areas for 442 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:52,720 individual study and um areas for group 443 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,480 work and standing and sitting on the 444 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,320 floor and on different types of soft 445 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,639 seating. And the teacher probably the 446 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:01,440 the thing that um is typically 447 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,399 overlooked is that that teacher desk 448 00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:08,079 that it can typically take up 15 to 25% 449 00:16:08,079 --> 00:16:10,720 of the square footage. We got rid of 450 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,360 that and we made them mobile and now the 451 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:14,800 teacher can move throughout the 452 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,720 classroom. There's no front of classroom 453 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,440 anymore. They can use all the walls as 454 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,399 learning spaces and um and just the 455 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:25,440 response that we had there. Um 456 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,519 immediately and then following up over 457 00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:29,519 the last three months here they've been 458 00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,560 in use is just how much it's affected 459 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,600 the mood and the culture 460 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,519 is is just one of those where like those 461 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:39,120 are that's what we do this for. I mean, 462 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,440 it's that impact to say, "Hey, we just 463 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,560 changed um change this environment, 464 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,480 changed the trajectory of of the way the 465 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,040 teachers and the students view school." 466 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,720 I must say that's amazing that you 467 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,440 pulled that off over a winter break. I 468 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,680 mean, yeah, it it was a big project. We 469 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,680 And the other piece of that, so it was 470 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,279 we did um five elementary schools over 471 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:03,120 winter break, but we had to take out all 472 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,679 their existing furniture, too. And 473 00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:07,679 what's even cooler is we partnered up 474 00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:09,839 with a company that takes that existing 475 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,000 one and they reuse it in other parts of 476 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,720 the world um that don't have anything in 477 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,319 there. So it was really cool that that 478 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,400 didn't end up in landfills. It was being 479 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,480 utilized somewhere else. It was it was 480 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,640 just a really really great experience. 481 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,000 Well, Kevin, I know you have a lot of 482 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,839 stories like this and I wish we had lots 483 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:27,520 of time to share these stories. 484 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,520 Obviously, these are shorter podcasts 485 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:30,799 we're doing now, but I'm looking forward 486 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:32,400 to doing a live podcast with you in the 487 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:33,600 future and we can talk about more of 488 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,480 these stories. But if there was a a 489 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:37,919 district or partner that was interested 490 00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:40,000 in exploring more deeply into this work, 491 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,440 how would they go about contacting you 492 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,360 and arranging for a deeper conversation? 493 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:44,960 Yeah, our website's the easiest way. 494 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,720 It's spelled weird, so it's K12, but 495 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,440 it's spelled K a-tw.com. 496 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,120 And right on there, you'll see we have 497 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:54,640 local representatives. you'll just pick 498 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,360 the state that you're in and set up uh 499 00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:59,120 we have their their calendarly their 500 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,400 calendar is right there and you can just 501 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,720 pick a time uh that works for you and 502 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:03,840 that will that will start the 503 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,760 conversation. Well, I really appreciate 504 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,039 that Kevin. I know those will be 505 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:08,240 powerful conversations for people 506 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,440 because I've had a number with you 507 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,679 already and uh very excited about the 508 00:18:11,679 --> 00:18:13,039 opportunity for superintendents and 509 00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:14,400 other district leaders to engage with 510 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:15,919 you in these kind of conversations and 511 00:18:15,919 --> 00:18:17,840 what it'll do for our students. I want 512 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,120 to thank you, Kevin, for being a part of 513 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:20,720 the important work of supporting our 514 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,559 students in schools. And I want to thank 515 00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:24,080 you for your participation in Learn 516 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,679 Podcast. David, thank you for what 517 00:18:25,679 --> 00:18:26,799 you're doing. It's really important 518 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:28,559 work. I'm glad you're glad you're taking 519 00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:30,240 it on. I think Learn's going to going to 520 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,400 have a really big impact. I'm excited 521 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,280 about it. Thank you so much, Kevin.