Closed Captions
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I want to welcome our audience to this
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learn podcast it is in these podcasts
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that learn wants you to meet experts
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that can help you and your work as
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school leaders or perhaps Partners in
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the education landscape the topic for
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this podcast is learning environments
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with a special focus on fractals and our
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guest is Cindy Goss senior director of
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Education segment at Mohawk group
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on the learn website you will find on
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the research page under the Coe of
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sustainability and the element of
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learning environments research in this
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area being discussed today along with
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potential resources to access Cindy I
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want to welcome you to the learn podcast
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it's good to have you here to speak with
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us about this important topic
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now I know you have an extensive
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research and work background in the area
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of learning environments especially in
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the impact on the physical environment
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on learning with fractal research would
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you please share with the audience some
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of that background and experience
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sure David thanks so much for having me
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good afternoon everyone so as David
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mentioned I'm Cindy Goss and I work with
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the Mohawk group we are the leading
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commercial flooring company in the
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United States and globally
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um and I'm privileged to head up our
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education segment strategy department
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for Mohawk and the past few years
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especially with the pandemic there's
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been a lot of trends that have emerged
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in education and we have renewed our
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Focus as a company around student social
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emotional well-being within the learning
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environment
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student and staff health is more
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important than ever we've talked about
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that a lot when we've talked about
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indoor air quality but what we've done
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at Mohawk and what my team's really been
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working on is how can we impact student
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and staff Health how can we impact
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stress reduction in a learning space
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with a floor other than the wall the
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floor is the largest surface in any room
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any space any building and so what can
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we do to help make an impact with that
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space and learning environment
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that that's really fascinating frankly
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Cindy it's not something that occurs to
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people naturally they don't think about
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that space is having an impact on the
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learning environment but your
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organization has been deeply involved in
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this kind of work for a long time
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um and I know you've done extensive
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research and studied a lot of this we
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can't cover all of that research in this
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podcast obviously that's too much in a
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15-minute period but what is out there
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about fractals that you think would be
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important for people to understand
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so Mohawk partnered with Dr Richard
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Taylor out of the University of Oregon
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who has spent his life's work to
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dedicate his time and research to
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fractals what is a fractal and when I
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think about a fractal what it is is if
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you imagine yourself outside in nature
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and you look at a tree and you focus in
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on the largest branch of the tree then
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you focus in on a branch that pulls away
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from it and then a smaller branch and a
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smaller Branch all the way down to a
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twig you naturally relax in nature your
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stress reduces in nature and so studying
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and understanding the natural patterns
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and that dimension of multiplication of
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smaller increase or decrease in pattern
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produces a stress reducing sensation
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within your own body so we can take this
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research and these wonderful Resource
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Partners that we have at Mohawk group to
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work with us to collaborate around
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product design that can be used in the
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educational space to help reduce this
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quality of stress especially in a
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post-pandemic world where we're talking
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a lot not just about our physical health
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and air quality but we're talking about
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social emotional health of the students
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in that space
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wow so you know I know I've been a
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superintendent for a number of years and
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and I've actually looked at flooring
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more from my comfort and a sound and and
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uh I guess an aesthetically pleasing
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kind of uh manner what you're telling me
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is the patterns matter a great deal that
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the research is showing that that
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actually helps reduce
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um the the stress levels of students and
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I'm guessing that reduction in stress
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level has some some uh positive outcomes
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for students as well it does and that's
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really where our research is headed and
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where we're trying to get through case
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studies as well out there in the market
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is by using these type of products in
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your space and mirroring the same
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Foundation of what these type of
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repetition of fraxel means in a space
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will let you to apply that to the wall
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we'll let you apply that same kind of um
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Theory to your ceiling Etc because if if
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we can just do the floor we're getting
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there but that's not the whole picture
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and a lot of as you've worked with in
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the past a lot of really great
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architecture firms are out there talking
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about the same thing understanding color
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understanding pattern and texture and a
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lot of theories are emerging around you
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know calming Blues contribute to calming
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Minds grassy greens can reduce stress
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earthy Browns can bring peace increasing
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these natural textures and light through
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biophilia and use of fractals in a space
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can actually increase behavior of
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kindness in students as well
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well I'm guessing a lot of our older
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spaces have limitations in terms of
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access to outdoor kind of visuals if you
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will so the fractals would be even more
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important in those spaces to to you know
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produce something that can't be produced
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with Windows absolutely and we're
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talking about it today from a flooring
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standpoint but I know there's a lot of
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Industry Partners out there within
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ceilings within Furniture within wall
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partitions Etc that are all kind of
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getting behind the science of fractal
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research and biophilic design so it can
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be used in those spaces that have those
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antique buildings that we know you know
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can't be replaced for another 10 20
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years so it's available for all
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different levels of building age that
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that is amazing research and and very
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exciting frankly but so in your
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experience of a district wanted to
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engage in this work what are some of the
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um kind of predictable positive outcomes
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they would want to make certain they
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communicated to their internal and
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external communities
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what would be those things that you
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think would be important for them I
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think it's great as a district to engage
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with your District architect or with the
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architecture of Records a firm that you
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partner with for your District's work
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and just talk about their expertise also
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in this research and what they're seeing
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and learning a lot of it is built around
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less is more there's a lot of we've
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heard from a lot of teachers that they
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they really want these architecture
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firms to give them like pretty much a
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blank canvas so they can make it their
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own and I think where we're trying to go
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with that is giving them this blank
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canvas that is setting them up for
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success for their students in the
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classroom and I think as a district it's
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a great conversation to have with your
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architecture Partners it's a great
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conversation to have here today and with
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learn and kind of combine research that
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we can all pull together and learn from
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you know Cindy that's fascinating
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because you're talking about the teacher
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and having worked in schools for 36
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years you can walk into classrooms and
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see a variety of kind of uh
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um spaces right where in many cases I
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know there's research around this we're
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not talking about it today where you can
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actually overwhelm the student with so
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much in the room so much in terms of
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things that are causing them to trigger
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in different ways right
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um so This research is actually you know
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what it sounds to me you're saying is
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you want to take this research working
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with the Architects and the teacher and
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create some frames of operation that
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that people need to think about about
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what goes on a wall what goes on a floor
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and and how that interaction matters to
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the student absolutely there are some
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studies that are recently out that
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talked about
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um Stress and Anxiety in students being
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up 20 30 post pandemic and as you
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mentioned when you're looking around
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mental health you're thinking around you
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know zones for students to decompress
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for for them to be able to cope because
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maybe they're over stimulated right and
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every student learns in a different
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environment so as you said you know
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certain classrooms have a lot going on
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certain classrooms are a little more
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um neutral I would say in their approach
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and so I think it's a great conversation
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to have we're really happy to be part of
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the conversation because I think this is
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how we take what's always been
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considered as education and it's like
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formal institution to the next level of
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really learning and understanding the
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way our students learn right and and how
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that brain responds to patterns that are
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in front of them right it's really
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important and and so you know what what
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I'm hearing from you is a predictable
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positive outcome here is one you're
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elevating the understanding of of this
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within your community but two you're
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also once implemented creating outcomes
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for students that that de-stresses them
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in a lot of ways so that that's really
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good information now like anything else
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there are potential implementation
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barriers in your experience what is the
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big biggest implementation barriers
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districts would want to be aware of if
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they were to go down this path of really
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talking about fractals and how the
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environment impacts students stress and
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and behaviors
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I think you know it's it's a
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conversation around having all the
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stakeholders at the table I think if if
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we talk about it from a manufacturing
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standpoint and districts talk about it
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from a district standpoint and maybe you
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know the principles involved like it's
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got to have everybody we've got to have
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the conversation even with the teachers
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because many times if we can create this
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Frame or the shelf or the learning
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environment but we don't have the staff
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on board with okay this is why this
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appears to be a very minimalistic design
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by traditional standards right like if
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everybody's not involved in that
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conversation then all the pre-planning
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and work that's gone into it may be lost
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with you know wall explosions of
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fantastic you know learning material
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that's been out there for decades so I
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think it's yeah the biggest hurdle is
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kind of saying everybody needs to join
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hands here and have this conversation
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and understand this is what the research
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that's gone in this is why we're doing
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this method here's kind of the white
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paper research on on it but and here's
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where we need your help you know staff
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and student student and staff and
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principals down to each School level to
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implement it for it to be successful and
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I'm assuming we can do that with a
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degree of autonomy within classrooms but
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it still has to be something that's
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that's carefully integrated with the the
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fractal patterns that are put in place
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otherwise you lose that impact so good
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good point and what's great what's great
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about the fractal research is biophilic
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design and the conversation around
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biophilia and the importance of bringing
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nature inside has been around for a few
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decades now with this conversation but
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what fractal says it's a little
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different is it's not just taking a
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piece of flooring or a wall or a ceiling
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and having a leaf on it or having you
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know branches Etc it's actually taking
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this repetition of pattern that your
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mind doesn't necessarily that you don't
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realize that your mind is relaxing from
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and reducing your stress because it's
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not obvious to you that it is a branch
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or a leaf or tree and so the it's really
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interesting because it can still remain
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a slate this doesn't mean because the
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fluorine has this pattern in it that
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it's the feature of the space right it
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kind of can still remain this canvas for
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other things that are important to the
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staff
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well that just sounds like fascinating
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research and and uh really amazing
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implementation opportunities now
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um have you seen its effect in schools
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um yet as you've done this work I know
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it's early in the work that you're doing
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but have you seen the effect on schools
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and if you have would you tell a story
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about that yeah it is a little early in
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um the implementation we have launched
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the initial product that we kind of
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brought to the market
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put us in a a price point category that
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put us in higher education
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um nine out of 10 times first so we do
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have a lot of really fantastic case
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studies of University Behavioral Health
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Centers Etc where this product and the
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other design elements that were put
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together you know brought this different
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calming space that they were accustomed
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to having previously especially one with
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Morehead college but we do have some
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K-12 districts um within Boston within
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Seattle Wisconsin Nebraska I mean you
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name it kind of across the country where
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we're starting to put this in one or two
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spaces at a time a lot of times it's a
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um
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a
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like a counseling kind of resource area
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or it's an area for students that have
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behavioral issues and again our piece is
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to provide this solution but we really
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need to have everybody at the table to
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show the impact that it can have and
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that's really where our focus is now is
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to get a few Partners together out there
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where we can go at this together and say
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okay let's start looking into case
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studies around test scores our test
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scores going up are we seeing a change
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from maybe a spring semester to a fall
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semester to the next spring where we can
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really start measuring the effect on
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these students and be able to pull more
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information from that so more to come we
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do have a local installation in Texas
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within Dallas ISD that we're really
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excited about and we've got a couple
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planned for 2023 so stay tuned we'll
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we'll be back with more information
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around this
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well as you're talking it just it occurs
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to me those spaces where you're trying
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to really focus on
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de-stressing children
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even if you weren't if you were just
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kind of playing right now that might be
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a good place to go but um I think as as
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districts look at the research they'll
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probably be uh more responsive to
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looking at it across the campuses not
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just in those spaces but still
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nonetheless that would be exciting now
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is there a district if someone wanted to
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go visit right now that you would
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recommend they can go visit and learn
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more about this kind of on site
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um not at this time but we will have I
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can provide one
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um here in hopefully a couple months
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when we get a couple more of these
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installations complete okay sounds good
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now if a district or partner is
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interested in exploring more deeply into
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this work how would they go about
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contacting you and arranging for a
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deeper conversation yeah all of our
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information is here on the Learned
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website I'm super excited to be part of
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this organization within learn and for
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Mohawk group and so they're welcome to
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reach out to me directly and I can help
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put them in touch with the local
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partners that we have to support them in
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their Market
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and Cindy what does that direct reach
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out to you what is that so my email
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address would be Cindy which is
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c-y-n-d-i-e underscore
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g-o-s-s as in Sam Sam at mohawkind so
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it's i-n-d as a dog for industries.com
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so Cindy underscore Goss at
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mohawkind.com
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um happy to help connect you like I said
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we do have some University installations
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that are a little that have been in a
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little bit longer that we've done some
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case study work around too so happy to
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help connect in any way I can
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I appreciate that thank you so much
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Cindy for being a part of the important
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work of supporting our students in
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schools and thank you for your
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participation in a learned podcast thank
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you thanks David for having me
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