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I want to welcome our audience to this
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learn podcast it is in these podcasts
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that learn wants you to meet experts
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that can help you and your work as
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school leaders or perhaps Partners in
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the education landscape the topic for
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this podcast is learning opportunities
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and outcomes and our guest is Joanna
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mceachen former Ministry of Education
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leader in New Zealand author of deep
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learning and other titles as well and
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the founder of the learner first
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organization
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on the learn website you will find on
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the research page under the Coe of
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access and the element of learning
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opportunities and outcomes research in
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this area area being discussed along
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with potential resource to access Joanne
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I want to welcome you to the learn
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podcast it is really good to have you
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here to speak with us about this
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important topic and I know you have an
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extensive research and work background
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in the area of learning opportunities
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and outcomes but would you please share
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with the audience some of that
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background and experience
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David it's lovely to be on your show
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today and I'm really excited to be here
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I'm speaking to you from my homeland in
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aotearoa New Zealand and
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um uh just share with you a few things
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that I've done in my lifetime hopefully
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it's exciting for you guys this is as
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exciting as it's been for me I started
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off living in aotearo New Zealand born
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in the South Island from a family of
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Educators five of us were teachers out
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of the seven children so we became right
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in everything we said you can imagine
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five teachers in one family we all know
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exactly what we're talking about
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um I became a teacher then I became a
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principal and then I worked across the
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Ministry of Education and I was a
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regional manager which is similar to a
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superintendent and then I became a
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leader across the national Ministry of
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Education and I was in charge of the
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performance of all of the schools in the
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country of New Zealand
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and then I was and once I became the
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responsible for the performance then I
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was asked if I could lead a change
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process across the country so I
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developed what was called the student
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achievement function when we looked at
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how do we make a difference for every
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child in our country especially those
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who were really what we called at the
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time the least served Learners and that
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was looking at students who were of
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indigenous backgrounds who were from the
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Pacific Islands and who had special
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education needs so we really looked at
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what were the programs that would work
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the most then I looked at what were the
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professional development needs for all
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of our teachers and principals across
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our country
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then I looked at what were the programs
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that worked the best for our children
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and then I looked at how do principals
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work together and network across the
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country so I had the biggest portfolios
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for their country for a long long period
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of time then I burned out because I got
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there was too much work for anybody and
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then I moved across to the United States
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um and I started to work with Michael
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fullen and I wrote the tools for new
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pedagogies for deep learning and we
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started writing the competencies we
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really had to have a look at what really
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matters for Learning and so we started
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to recognize that it wasn't just
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knowledge that counts it's also how do
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we access knowledge and what do we do
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with it when it makes when it to make a
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difference for for children's learning
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so we knew that knowledge is really
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important but we have to help be able to
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unlock that knowledge and how do we
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unlock that potential so I wrote the
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tools for that project and we worked
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across 10 different countries with about
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100 schools in each country in the
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United States was involved in that as
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well and from there I also recognized
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that we needed to go a little bit deeper
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and I looked at how do we then measure
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that so I was the new measures director
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for that and then looked at what does it
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mean to have a sort of a global
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experience but also then what do we do
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with that so I'll go a little bit deeper
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into those things as we talked about my
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experience is vast and my experience is
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really around what makes a difference
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from the classroom
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to the system and the system to the
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classroom right you've dealt with
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everything from the leader to the
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student to the teacher and so it's
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really a great wealth of experience and
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I I know I've seen some of those
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connectors in your work and so it's very
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exciting to hear from you today to talk
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about that now you've done an extensive
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amount of research obviously written a
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number of books around that research
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um and uh for me it's just it's kind of
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exciting because I will venture to say
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that for a lot of people that will hear
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this podcast this will be somewhat new
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material for them
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even if they've been in education for
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for a while and right now obviously
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competencies are growing in in uh um in
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terms of their level of incorporation in
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schools and and excitement around that
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so I'm really excited to hear about that
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there's a ton of research out there you
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don't have time to share all that we've
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got about 15 minutes so what I'd like
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you to do is share with the audience
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what you think are the key insights or
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information that they want to hear in
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that research
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yeah I think there's kind of three areas
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that I would like to shoot today David
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around that and the first one is around
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um what Gutierrez talked about at the um
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un at the in September last year he sort
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of talked about global pedagogy and I
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talk about global pedagogy that's rooted
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in local agency because nobody knows
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their children better than the people
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that are closest to them which is their
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teachers and their parents and the local
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community and he talked about learning
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to learn learning to live together
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learning to do and learning to be and I
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think that really reflects the work
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we've been doing around competencies
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around the world and the world needs us
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to be working together right now so I
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think we need to think about how can we
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pull our knowledge to work as a globe
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and actually think about what can we do
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that stops US wasting time and actually
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thinking about what can we do that we
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can share and then focus on what can we
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spend our time on with the individual
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child or children in our classrooms so
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let's help our teachers by giving them
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the information they need at a systemic
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level and then really then give them
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time to focus on their kids so that's
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usually sizing our technology so we can
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spend the time on Humanity
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second one I'll talk about is assessment
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because that's what's been holding us
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back if we think about I always
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challenge people and teachers and
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parents to say if you've has anyone got
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Twins or has anyone got kids that are
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the same exactly the same if we did to
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treat them the same you know our kids
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would just have a have a you know
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they're right against us so I talk about
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that if we try and assess children the
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same that's not going to give us the
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information we need to help them to move
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to their next step so really talk about
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Equity Equitable assessment inequitable
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assessment means that kids should show
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us what they know first in their way
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right if they can if they can show us
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first what they know then we can get
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them to show us in the way we want them
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to show us but if they can learn first
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show us their knowledge in the way they
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want to then we've got a chance of them
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wanting to stay learning because they
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get excited about learning so I think
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standardization across assessment is
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only one data point we need to let them
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have a go first and then we'll get some
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excitement back in learning
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then the next and then the next one is
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around the contributive learning so I
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think about contributive learning has
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four elements to it and that word might
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be new to people contributive learning
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and when I when I talk about that what I
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mean is four outcomes for Learning and
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these are the Deep outcomes that we've
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really been wanting for learning across
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the world and I have interviewed
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multiple parents in America as well
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because I mean I've lived there for
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multiple years myself this one is
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self-understanding Know Who You Are
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know who you are how you fit into the
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world and how you can contribute your
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set of skills to the world
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right second one is connection how do
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you connect yourself and what you can do
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and how do you find ways in your
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Pathways to do that so if you know what
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you can do then let's find a way to help
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you do it
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next one's knowledge what's the
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curriculum you need to be used so if
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you're going to be a doctor we need to
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help you get there if you're going to be
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a chef we need to help you get there if
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you're going to be a gardener we need to
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help you get there
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and the last one is the competencies so
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what are the competencies that can bring
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all of that together to make it happen
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to bring to life and that has to be
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individualized so what we've worked out
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is a process and a way to enable that to
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come to life on an individual scale and
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that frightens teach us to start with
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because it's really hard to think about
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how do we do that so through
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contributive learning we've figured out
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a process that enables teachers to do
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that in a way that helps them to feel
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like they are contributing their great
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skills to the education process too so
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if I had to say three things it's around
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Global pedagogy rooted in local agency
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it's around Shifting the assessment
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system and it's moving towards that
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contributive learning process I think
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those are the three keys that we really
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need to be focusing on and there's so
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much to unpack there we obviously don't
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have time to unpack all that but we will
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be doing a follow-up much longer podcast
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on this thing and it kind of excites me
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to really dig into those rigid
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assessment tools we use today that
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really don't allow us to
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help a student better understand
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themselves and really dig into kind of a
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Clarity of Direction and and that's for
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I know many superintendents frustrating
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and I know you can help them with that
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and then obviously that piece on the dis
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on the uh the contributive learning
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piece
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um all the way through the competencies
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and the knowledge base and all that I
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think that's key and in unpacking that
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because this isn't just uh what I like
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to call it for Grins and Giggles kind of
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implementation thing this is really
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serious stuff you're talking about and
277
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uh requires a great deal of support now
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in your experience of a district want to
279
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engage in this work and this to me is
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really important as superintendent or
281
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past superintendent I should say what
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are some of those predictable positive
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outcomes they'd want to make certain
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that they could communicate to their
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internal external communities
286
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um about this you know just what are the
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amazing things that they could say are
288
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going to happen because you're doing
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this kind of work
290
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that that we're not throwing away
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standardized testing that that's still
292
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there I think everybody needs to know
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that this is still part of the system
294
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and until we can understand how it works
295
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we're still going to use that's one data
296
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point and just remember that we are
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working within the system that until we
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get through this whole phase of
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understanding how this works it's one of
300
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the data points we still use we're still
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following the rules that it's still
302
00:09:46,260 --> 00:09:48,360
until we understand how we move through
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this it's still there what we're talking
304
00:09:50,580 --> 00:09:52,920
about is understanding that we are the
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system
306
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,160
what we've inherited is a system that's
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been designed by humans and we are the
308
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humans and we can make the changes
309
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because we know I think what we're
310
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,560
talking about here is what I call a
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moral injury that we're doing it to
312
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ourselves and that we can be the ones to
313
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make the change and so I talk about like
314
00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:13,320
sometimes we think about the system has
315
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,540
made us do this and that that system has
316
00:10:15,540 --> 00:10:17,220
almost become a concrete block in front
317
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of us
318
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and we all sit around and move around
319
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that concrete block and we all look at
320
00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:22,500
it and think well who did that who did
321
00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:23,700
that who did that yeah but actually
322
00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:26,459
that's just us and if we can be be okay
323
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and gentle with each other and recognize
324
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that these are our kids these are the
325
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kids that we want to help us when we're
326
00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:33,720
old because I'm getting to that stage
327
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,160
where I'm getting old now and I want
328
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,360
them to be able to help me I want them
329
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,339
to be able to be thinkers and innovators
330
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and creators of the future and we are
331
00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:42,660
living in the age of AI we're living in
332
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the age where we want to program AI to
333
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,700
actually treat you know to be respectful
334
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so we want it to be able to actually you
335
00:10:50,459 --> 00:10:52,620
know reflect the the generosity of who
336
00:10:52,620 --> 00:10:54,839
who we are as humans right so I think
337
00:10:54,839 --> 00:10:56,880
it's sort of um it's the Mind shift that
338
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we want to make it's the ability to
339
00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:00,779
understand that we can make the change
340
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and the other thing is to work with each
341
00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:05,279
other you know we're not in competition
342
00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:06,779
with parents and parents aren't in
343
00:11:06,779 --> 00:11:08,279
competition with us we are working
344
00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:09,959
together for our children
345
00:11:09,959 --> 00:11:12,600
in its communication let's talk to each
346
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,100
other about this because there is fear
347
00:11:14,100 --> 00:11:16,019
about changing what we're doing there's
348
00:11:16,019 --> 00:11:17,940
a lot of fear about what education is
349
00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:20,459
about so recognize that and don't run
350
00:11:20,459 --> 00:11:22,019
away from it let's talk to each other
351
00:11:22,019 --> 00:11:23,640
about it and say why are you scared
352
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,500
about this and teachers we're scared
353
00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:27,360
about this too and parents were scared
354
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,160
about this too we don't know what to do
355
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,920
next sometimes so let's admit it you
356
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,180
know I went to the doctor the other day
357
00:11:33,180 --> 00:11:34,920
and he said to me something about you
358
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,060
know I actually don't know about that
359
00:11:36,060 --> 00:11:38,459
one and I thought yay you know tell the
360
00:11:38,459 --> 00:11:40,380
truth let's figure it out together you
361
00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:41,339
know there's things that we can do
362
00:11:41,339 --> 00:11:43,560
together to understand humanity and
363
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:45,660
understand what the world means let's
364
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not pretend we know everything and let's
365
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,440
do this together and figure it out
366
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,480
because these are our children and this
367
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,060
is our future so we know there's fear we
368
00:11:54,060 --> 00:11:55,860
know there's fear of money we know this
369
00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:57,600
fear of funding we know this fear of
370
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,360
losing jobs we understand it so let's
371
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,339
talk it through and recognize it and not
372
00:12:02,339 --> 00:12:04,500
put our heads in the sand right you know
373
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:06,420
and I think you point out you use that
374
00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:09,300
concrete block as a as a model and that
375
00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:11,640
concrete block was was built in 1892 in
376
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,860
this country right and so it's like we
377
00:12:13,860 --> 00:12:15,839
designed a system in 1892 that we've
378
00:12:15,839 --> 00:12:17,820
stayed so loyal and tightly coupled to
379
00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:20,339
that we're scared to shift from it even
380
00:12:20,339 --> 00:12:22,140
though we know we should it's like we're
381
00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:23,880
scared of the the new knowledge base
382
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,040
that will be required and we're scared
383
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,260
of losing with what we're been attached
384
00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:29,640
to and it's it's an interesting thing
385
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,740
but it seems like in the atmosphere
386
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:33,240
people are starting to recognized and
387
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,339
yet we need to do this for the sake of
388
00:12:35,339 --> 00:12:36,360
our children for the sake of our
389
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,459
economies for the sake of our Nations we
390
00:12:38,459 --> 00:12:40,200
need to do this so yeah well you
391
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,220
wouldn't want to walk into a hospital
392
00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:43,260
that was still operating in 1982 would
393
00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:45,440
you
394
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,480
yeah yeah we want to be able to
395
00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,880
understand that it's not it's okay to
396
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:00,899
move on
397
00:13:00,899 --> 00:13:02,760
we want to be able to move on it's
398
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,240
important yeah now it's really important
399
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,339
yeah and in doing this though you've
400
00:13:08,339 --> 00:13:09,959
you've had a lot of experience working
401
00:13:09,959 --> 00:13:12,240
with different districts doing this and
402
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:13,740
relying upon that experience what would
403
00:13:13,740 --> 00:13:15,779
you say are the potential implementation
404
00:13:15,779 --> 00:13:17,820
barriers that superintendents or their
405
00:13:17,820 --> 00:13:19,680
key leaders would want to be aware of as
406
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:21,959
they tried to move into this atmosphere
407
00:13:21,959 --> 00:13:24,000
if you will of both the contributive
408
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,240
education which I think is really really
409
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,279
neat and and unusual and I love the
410
00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:31,139
approach but also those competencies
411
00:13:31,139 --> 00:13:33,720
inside there that are really important
412
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,639
I think what happens is people try and
413
00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:37,680
change everything at once and that's
414
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:39,600
really scary so I don't do everything at
415
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,120
once what we do as a staged approach and
416
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,399
what we what we ask is that we go gently
417
00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:46,680
on each other so we often we use a
418
00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,500
process where we just use one we do one
419
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:51,180
learner at a time one teacher at a time
420
00:13:51,180 --> 00:13:53,519
one school at a time and we learn a
421
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:55,920
process first because what happens is
422
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,839
people feel they have to race this isn't
423
00:13:57,839 --> 00:14:00,300
a race this is a life and actually what
424
00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:02,279
we do is we teach the skills and I think
425
00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:04,079
what happens is it becomes a really
426
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:05,940
positive Journey because I've been
427
00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:08,459
accosted in bathrooms by teachers saying
428
00:14:08,459 --> 00:14:10,620
you've changed my life I actually want
429
00:14:10,620 --> 00:14:12,660
to stay in the teaching profession now I
430
00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:14,399
don't want to retire anymore because I'm
431
00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:16,680
loving coming to school I've we've had
432
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:18,720
we've had like one one District we work
433
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,300
with in Oklahoma they got they got 10
434
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,639
000 more school days paid for because
435
00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:25,380
they had their kids come back to school
436
00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:27,480
there was a there's an excitement that
437
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,040
comes back into teaching because they
438
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,839
love it again and the kids love it again
439
00:14:30,839 --> 00:14:33,240
because they get the joy back of
440
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,680
learning because that's what it's about
441
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,620
and if we can encourage and engage kids
442
00:14:37,620 --> 00:14:39,899
in learning and teachers too so that
443
00:14:39,899 --> 00:14:42,060
they want to be at school then we're
444
00:14:42,060 --> 00:14:43,380
halfway through the battle
445
00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:46,199
because it's presence its engagement and
446
00:14:46,199 --> 00:14:48,600
achievement you can't teach if kids
447
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,519
aren't at school you can't you can't
448
00:14:50,519 --> 00:14:52,500
engage if they don't like it so
449
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:54,120
therefore it's like it's all a big
450
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,160
parcel of it's all that together piece
451
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,260
now I'm really curious about a piece in
452
00:14:58,260 --> 00:15:00,060
there that authentic assessment piece
453
00:15:00,060 --> 00:15:01,380
that's actually some of the work we talk
454
00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:04,199
about and learn how do you get to that
455
00:15:04,199 --> 00:15:05,820
space a little bit just kind of pushing
456
00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:07,560
on that issue specifically how do you
457
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,600
get to that space with with the staff
458
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,699
especially as they constantly talk about
459
00:15:11,699 --> 00:15:13,079
the whole standardized testing
460
00:15:13,079 --> 00:15:14,699
experience they get afraid of pulling in
461
00:15:14,699 --> 00:15:16,920
new ways of looking at student learning
462
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,540
how do you get to there
463
00:15:18,540 --> 00:15:20,880
it's to me it's a it's a process of
464
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,459
thinking about what tells you what would
465
00:15:23,459 --> 00:15:25,079
what would tell you that a child has
466
00:15:25,079 --> 00:15:26,279
been successful when they're learning
467
00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:28,560
about that objective so we go back to
468
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,000
the standards we go back to the
469
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,100
objectives and we say what really tells
470
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:33,600
us if a child has actually achieved that
471
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,760
so we don't look at the content of it
472
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,860
we're looking at the objective of it and
473
00:15:37,860 --> 00:15:39,420
then we keep teaching to that objective
474
00:15:39,420 --> 00:15:41,160
we might change the context as we move
475
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,040
through but we'll remain true to what
476
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,380
we're actually trying to understand and
477
00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:47,639
then we're asking the children how can
478
00:15:47,639 --> 00:15:48,959
you tell me you've learned that what
479
00:15:48,959 --> 00:15:50,220
would be some ways you could show me
480
00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:51,959
you've learned that because guess what
481
00:15:51,959 --> 00:15:54,180
David when we leave school we are the
482
00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:56,459
ones who have to know whether we have
483
00:15:56,459 --> 00:15:58,019
been successful not no one else will
484
00:15:58,019 --> 00:16:00,300
tell us so self-assessment for me is the
485
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:02,339
first indicator then we might want to
486
00:16:02,339 --> 00:16:04,079
look for is this impure assessment we
487
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:06,060
could do so others could share with each
488
00:16:06,060 --> 00:16:07,740
other if we've been successful or not
489
00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:10,079
then we might ask for maybe some parent
490
00:16:10,079 --> 00:16:12,839
input or we might say is there a way a
491
00:16:12,839 --> 00:16:14,579
different way this this artistic ways
492
00:16:14,579 --> 00:16:16,079
there's written ways there's musical
493
00:16:16,079 --> 00:16:17,519
ways there's all these different ways
494
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:20,060
that can be shown and we broaden our
495
00:16:20,060 --> 00:16:22,560
ways of understanding about learning and
496
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,019
knowledge because there's not one way of
497
00:16:25,019 --> 00:16:27,060
doing anything in this world and what
498
00:16:27,060 --> 00:16:28,980
we've done is we've narrowed it down so
499
00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:31,320
tightly and we understand that your
500
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:32,699
parents need to know they've had a
501
00:16:32,699 --> 00:16:34,260
return on their investment in education
502
00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:36,480
but unfortunately we've done it the
503
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,000
fastest way the first book that I wrote
504
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,920
was making the important measurable not
505
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,500
the measurable important let's not make
506
00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:45,420
it so that we teach to what we think
507
00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:48,360
should be tested because you know in
508
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,880
every every single system I have worked
509
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,100
in when we go back to teaching what's
510
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:55,320
important the kids pass in a
511
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,000
standardized test every single District
512
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,800
we've worked in the results have gone up
513
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,680
when we've taken the pressure off and
514
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,679
given the joy back and it's not I know I
515
00:17:04,679 --> 00:17:06,360
keep saying to people this is not fluffy
516
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:09,299
wuffy woo-woo this is hard work this is
517
00:17:09,299 --> 00:17:11,819
really deep learning because it really
518
00:17:11,819 --> 00:17:13,439
is going into what makes a difference
519
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:15,839
yeah well I love your passion with that
520
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:17,939
and and I love the fact that you know
521
00:17:17,939 --> 00:17:19,799
you're not shying away from the standard
522
00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:21,299
you're just approaching the standards in
523
00:17:21,299 --> 00:17:22,860
a different way oh yeah we're going hard
524
00:17:22,860 --> 00:17:25,079
at them yeah yeah they're important now
525
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:26,640
we can debate whether the standards
526
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:27,839
we're using are the right ones we can
527
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:29,340
have that debate later it's a different
528
00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:31,860
story that's your choice I'm never I'm
529
00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:33,120
not going to go into anybody's District
530
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,220
or school or state or country and say
531
00:17:35,220 --> 00:17:36,840
your standards are wrong that's up to
532
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,640
you what I will do is I'll show you how
533
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,059
important the competencies are yeah
534
00:17:41,059 --> 00:17:43,880
right yeah yeah
535
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,919
now is there a district or actually just
536
00:17:46,919 --> 00:17:49,200
a story around this a school a district
537
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,400
where
538
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,080
um you've seen really amazing work take
539
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,960
place as they've adopted this uh this uh
540
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,880
type of uh pedagogy from from your
541
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:57,900
organization
542
00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:00,120
um yeah my favorite my favorite favorite
543
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,640
story is um when we're working in a high
544
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,520
school and um they started off in the
545
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:06,600
morning and they've got what they call
546
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,940
their learner-preneur
547
00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:10,559
um session so instead of doing like a
548
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:12,120
morning session where they do like their
549
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:13,260
sort of
550
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:14,880
um you know home room or their morning
551
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,340
talk with their group teacher or at the
552
00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:19,860
start of the day or their chicken they
553
00:18:19,860 --> 00:18:21,419
I'm not saying chicken I'm saying check
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00:18:21,419 --> 00:18:23,700
in and they um
555
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:25,620
what they've done is they go through the
556
00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:27,360
self-understanding learning progression
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because we use tools that's one of the
558
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:30,179
things that I think is really important
559
00:18:30,179 --> 00:18:31,559
is to actually have a tool because
560
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otherwise people forget what to do
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00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,760
um and they they start every morning and
562
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,320
they decide how are they going to learn
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00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,120
today and what's their learning going to
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00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:41,580
be about what tools do they need and
565
00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:43,020
what where are they up to in their own
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00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:45,179
Learning Journey and so instead of being
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an entrepreneur they've called it learn
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a preneur and so what they do is they
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they discuss and they decide where
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00:18:51,419 --> 00:18:52,980
they're up to in their process they make
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a decision about what tools they need
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00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:56,220
who they're going to talk to what people
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in the community they need to to work on
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00:18:58,380 --> 00:18:59,700
and then they're going to they're going
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to figure out how to do that and one of
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00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,960
the other schools that we work with in
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00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,299
that same region they they the deputy
578
00:19:06,299 --> 00:19:07,500
principal of another school came up to
579
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:09,240
me and she said what have you done to my
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00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,280
daughter she's 13 years old and she can
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00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,140
talk about learning better than I can oh
582
00:19:13,140 --> 00:19:15,980
wow that's powerful
583
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:17,880
she came to me and she said we need to
584
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,679
work with you because of this so it's
585
00:19:19,679 --> 00:19:21,000
like these are the sorts of stories that
586
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,740
are happening and another really
587
00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:24,539
beautiful story is about how one other
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00:19:24,539 --> 00:19:27,600
school of of of year that it would be
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00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,039
great it would be equivalent to grades
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00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:30,900
seven and eight I think in in the states
591
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:33,120
they said they decided that their
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00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,220
parents were getting overweight and so
593
00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:37,200
they and their parents excuses we had to
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00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,700
travel on a train an hour each way to
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00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,039
work each day so they decided that what
596
00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:42,240
they would want to do is they wanted to
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00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,620
get some fitness equipment on their
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00:19:43,620 --> 00:19:45,900
train so they spent this whole project
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00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,179
writing to the council writing to the
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00:19:48,179 --> 00:19:51,059
train owners and they ended up getting
601
00:19:51,059 --> 00:19:53,460
fitness equipment on the train they had
602
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:55,500
to measure the a whole Carriage they had
603
00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:56,640
to measure the train Carriage they had
604
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,559
to rush and get funding for it they had
605
00:19:58,559 --> 00:19:59,880
to work out which which equipment
606
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:00,780
wouldn't you know when they're going
607
00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:03,140
along on the train
608
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,400
guarantee that parents would use it and
609
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,320
they did it so I think you know what
610
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,820
we're talking about is real learning
611
00:20:08,820 --> 00:20:10,320
that makes a difference for people's
612
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,360
lives so it's finding ways of doing that
613
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,400
so we've worked that's you know we've
614
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:15,660
worked in multiple countries so we've
615
00:20:15,660 --> 00:20:17,520
worked in in Australia New Zealand
616
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,740
America Canada
617
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:22,860
um Uruguay Finland Netherlands we can
618
00:20:22,860 --> 00:20:24,179
show different places around the world
619
00:20:24,179 --> 00:20:25,799
if you want to we're happy to host you
620
00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:27,799
in New Zealand
621
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:30,059
takers to go to some of those countries
622
00:20:30,059 --> 00:20:33,600
but absolutely and I am speaking it in a
623
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,360
ESP conference in July so you're welcome
624
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,760
to come and see me speak there and I'd
625
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:39,960
certainly host a group of people who
626
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,340
wanted to come traveling with me around
627
00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:43,080
the world to see some different schools
628
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,299
um it's just it's well worth it to see
629
00:20:45,299 --> 00:20:47,220
what goes on that's right it just opens
630
00:20:47,220 --> 00:20:49,200
their eyes well that kind of segues into
631
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,240
my last question which is if if a
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00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,679
district or partner were interested in
633
00:20:52,679 --> 00:20:54,900
exploring this work more deeply how they
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00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:56,700
go about contacting you and arranging
635
00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:58,260
for that conversation
636
00:20:58,260 --> 00:20:59,880
um they would contact me at Joanne the
637
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,140
learnerfirst.com
638
00:21:01,140 --> 00:21:03,600
and that would be totally fine if they
639
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,760
wanted to connect with me or reach out
640
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,700
to my website which is the
641
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,919
learnerfirst.com and connect through to
642
00:21:10,919 --> 00:21:12,960
me through through that
643
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,039
um we're really happy to work with
644
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:15,299
people we have a team in the United
645
00:21:15,299 --> 00:21:16,860
States we have a team in Australia we
646
00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:19,260
have a team in New Zealand and we work
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00:21:19,260 --> 00:21:21,539
with scores around the world
648
00:21:21,539 --> 00:21:23,220
um so we have and and I think the beauty
649
00:21:23,220 --> 00:21:24,720
of working with us is you get to have
650
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,039
those connections with other schools
651
00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:27,539
globally I work on the North American
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00:21:27,539 --> 00:21:30,740
Advisory Board which works with Canada
653
00:21:30,740 --> 00:21:34,320
America Mexico and New Zealand so we
654
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,120
have a team that goes does multiple work
655
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:38,159
around the space so we're really excited
656
00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:39,179
to be able to share this work with
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00:21:39,179 --> 00:21:40,740
everybody because it is the way of the
658
00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:43,500
future there is no turning back now well
659
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:45,059
Joanne I want to really thank you for
660
00:21:45,059 --> 00:21:46,380
being a part of the important work of
661
00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:48,419
supporting our schools and students and
662
00:21:48,419 --> 00:21:49,559
I especially want to thank you for
663
00:21:49,559 --> 00:21:51,419
participating in our learn podcast thank
664
00:21:51,419 --> 00:21:53,520
you so much thanks Deb it's been a real
665
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,140
pleasure
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00:21:55,140 --> 00:21:58,519
