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I want to welcome our audience to this
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learn podcast it is in these podcasts
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that learn wants you to meet experts
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that can help you and your work as
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school leaders or perhaps Partners in
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the education landscape
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the topic for this podcast is learning
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opportunities and outcomes and our guest
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is Shannon Burke founder and CEO of
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engage2learn
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on the learn website you will find on
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the research page under the Coe of
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access and the element of learning
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opportunities and outcomes research in
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this area being discussed along with
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potential resources to access Shannon I
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want to welcome you to the learn podcast
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it is good to have you here to speak
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with us about this important topic and I
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know you have an extensive research and
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work background in the area of learning
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opportunities and outcomes but would you
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please share with the audience some of
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that background and experience
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absolutely thanks for having me Dave and
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I'm just very excited that the learn
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group is putting together these this
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work because I think it's so valuable
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for educators so thanks for all you're
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doing for that
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um yeah in terms of my background and
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experience as you know I was you know I
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started out as a teacher when I was 22.
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much like you did and others in the
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field and learned very quickly in my
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first teaching role how important it was
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to create relevant learning
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opportunities and access for students I
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had seniors that year and and they had
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failed the exit exam four or more times
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and it was the first year that students
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could not walk the stage and get a
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diploma in the state of Texas if they
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didn't pass the exit exam so you had
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seniors that you know had passed all the
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way through school but they weren't
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going to get a diploma that was my first
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teaching job so it was a little trial by
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fire and so I learned right off the bat
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from experience and I did a lot of
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research then saying like how do I make
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sure that these students who you know
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have made it through school but now are
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not passing this exam how do I create an
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opportunity for them to have access to
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what they need to be able to get their
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diploma and so right off the bat
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um in my teaching experience I learned
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about that and then
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um you know as a lifetime educator and
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going into Administration and thinking
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about that from a systems perspective
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has been important for me and then with
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founding engaged to learn it's been one
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of the bedrocks of our of our work with
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you know 400 districts so we've curated
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a lot of the research around this how do
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you create better access how do you
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create better outcomes based on not just
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standardized test scores not just what
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you need to graduate but how do you
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actually succeed in life you know how do
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we make sure that students are life
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ready and so there's there's so much
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valuable research out there around this
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and I've made it one of my past passions
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and one of my Pursuits to really
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understand everything we can and then
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put it into practice
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right and you've done a tremendous
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amount of work around this written
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numerous articles even books around this
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work but uh I recognize in the amount of
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time we have dedicated to this podcast
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we can't cover all that research and
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work that you've done around learning
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opportunities and outcomes but would you
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share with our audience some of the key
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insights and information about the
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research and the work that you've done
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in this area
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absolutely and um
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again it's it it needs to be a Bedrock
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of Education we can't
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um we can't truly say that students are
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educated unless they've had the
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opportunity to truly engage in a way
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that um gives them skills for life and
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so um it's not something that
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necessarily can be measured in test
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scores so I think there's to me there's
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three key areas one area to think about
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is what you're measuring because what
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you measure you know we know the saying
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you value what you measure so measure
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what you value and in this case a lot of
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the measures that we already have out
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there of course are not around the
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outcomes the long-term outcomes for
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Learners they're more around the
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short-term outcomes of how they process
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the curriculum standards and you know
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are they able to apply those in a in a
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multiple choice setting situation so the
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first thing in any
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um school system that wants to really
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value the outcomes for Learners that are
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going to be life-ready skills is to find
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a way to measure those so that it's
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something that that the system focuses
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on and there are are curated lots of
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different
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um already created assessments out there
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we've curated those as well to share
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with districts all different types of
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Assessments that you can use to measure
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some of those things including obviously
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the student Gallup Poll for engagement
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you know as a starting place but then
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you can look at the life ready skills
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that align to what employers want and
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um there's several you know assessments
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that will assess their progression on
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those life-ready skills in addition to
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what they're progressing with the
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curriculum so how they're learning and
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the and the skills they're acquiring
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that can be applied in their later life
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are really important to measure
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um to be able to so the first thing is
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measuring those things and and looking
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at what the measures are that are out
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there valuing those I mean I know school
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districts that are making that a part of
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their grading and Reporting
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um over time because right if you if you
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aren't reporting on it maybe it's not
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that important right but if you are then
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it is and so um you know and Gathering
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perceptions of families and teachers and
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students themselves on these types of
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outcomes that they've identified so I
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think a lot of school districts have
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something like a learner profile or a
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graduate profile and uh the
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recommendation from experience and
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research is take that profile and put it
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into action because those profiles are
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beautiful they say all these things
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about what the outcomes are that we want
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for kids but until they're measured and
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a part of the system then we don't
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um we don't force the system to then
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create the opportunities for Learners to
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acquire the skills we say we want them
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but we don't have that in place so first
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thing is measuring it
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um second is you know creating again a
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learning environment that is conducive
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to that and that's a different type of
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system you know that can't be one size
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fits all obviously because Learners
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aren't able to then make progress on
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those different outcomes that are
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aligned to their interests and their
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passions and their futures
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um if it's one size fits all
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um and I and I love the
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um
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you know Bill Daggett says this but
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essentially it's like you know if you
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increase relevance
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then you can increase rigor so it's
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in a way the you've heard me say this
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before but you don't have to sacrifice
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achievement when you're being Innovative
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about learner outcomes you can actually
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have both and so um creating an
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environment that is conducive to that to
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where Educators can plan and design
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experiences around those things and
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around those outcomes and then the third
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thing is and this is related to the
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measurement piece but it's really a
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first step before that is building out
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those skills or those outcomes that this
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system has decided on as competencies so
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as as Progressive competencies level
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competencies that can go right alongside
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the standards to say yes we have these
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stand curriculum standards important
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we're not disregarding those but here
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are those um life ready skills or
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whatever that system wants to term those
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um skills as outcomes that are
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competencies that Learners can have
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agency over set goals on and make
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progress towards um in their learning
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and then being able to align
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so that you know aligning curriculum
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resources and learning opportunities to
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those pieces that's how you create an
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intentional system around it
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um I think a lot of Educators today are
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are certainly engaging students with
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their interests polling students about
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their interest and trying to include
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those in the curriculum a different way
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to think about it is to truly actually
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organize the curriculum around those
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interests and outcomes instead of trying
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to infuse it the other way so that's
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that that third piece those those are
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very powerful pieces and and uh I
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imagine quite a journey for a district
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to go down
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um to try to get that kind of alignment
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across those three pieces but in your
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experience if a district wanted to
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engage in this work kind of out of the
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gate my experience has been you have to
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be able to share with your internal and
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external communities some of those kind
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of positive potential outcomes right out
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of the gate that kind of get people
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excited what would be those things that
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you would tell a district hey be
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prepared to share this because it'll
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really help you launch this work
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well one of the great things about this
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type of work is that engaging people in
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the conversation to even set the
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outcomes in the first place like
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engaging families and folks from
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different professions in in that
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conversation
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is I think probably one of the most
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accessible conversations around
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education that you can engage your
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community and parents in so I do believe
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and we've seen it from experience and
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thousands of situations where engaging
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folks in the community to create you
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know to say these are the outcomes we
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care about is really important so that's
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that's a that's an important step and a
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first step a lot of folks have done that
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already which is great so now it's just
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taking that set of outcomes and turning
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it into actionable
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um
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um you know something that can be acted
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on so I think that's important I I'm
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reminded of the story of the Metro
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school so this was our this was one of
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engaged to learn's First engagements
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um with the school district at the uh
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almost 12 years ago now and this was the
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Metropolitan schools of design and
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Corpus Christi ISD and these were two
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campuses Elementary and secondary that
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were going to be shut down if
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um they continued in their veins so they
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kind of reopened them and their real
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Focus was on
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um I can't remember what they call them
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whatever the life skills soft skills I
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think they call them at that point
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engage the community in coming up with
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that list and then made those again a
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part of reporting and then designed
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experiences that created relevance
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connected to those and I think that you
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know what was exciting was at the very
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beginning just like you're saying they
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talked with parents and families about
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the value of these types of experiences
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and these types of outcomes and then
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engage them in helping to create
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relevance within the curriculum and we
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all want more family engagement I think
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it's so important and this is such a
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natural way to do it because it's
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bringing people's professions their
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interests you know into the classroom
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and making them a part of that the
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results in that particular situation
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within one year we saw unbelievable
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gains on the test they they met ayp they
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had up to 24 percentage Point gains in
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one year and for all types of students
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in every subject area and every you know
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student group including special needs
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and engagement increase significantly
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and then you know there's all kinds of
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anecdotal stories about like I talked to
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one particular student for example that
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said before I was in this environment
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my goal was to be like my brother a drug
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dealer you know that's what I was going
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to drop out of school at the end of my
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freshman year when I would turn of age
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and then and now I see that because of
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the relevance the way that you know that
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I can have leadership abilities this
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wasn't he was a senior he was number two
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at his class he went to Rutgers he had
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created like a community
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um a student youth group community group
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that would be like was like helping to
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clean up and and recreate different
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areas of the community that needed
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renovating and Reviving
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so it's just it's one of those things
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when you I've always said when you take
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the power of everything that Learners
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can bring to the table and Infuse that
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into the experiences that that Learners
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can have we can really you know we can
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really change the world because they
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have great ideas too so yeah
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yeah and I think that's powerful what
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you just said you know that whole idea
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of engaging your community around the
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things that they value especially as you
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hear the the conversations today in the
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political atmosphere that actually helps
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diffuse that because you're engaging
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them in things that matter
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um Beyond just the curriculum and trying
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to trying to you know kind of inspire
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people through curriculum which usually
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doesn't work so you've done this work a
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lot and you've done this across the
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country frankly you've done it with me
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but would you share some of those
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implementation barriers also that you've
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seen that districts need to be aware of
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if they're going to go down this pathway
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of really investing in authentic
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learning opportunities for kids I think
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it's a really important point because no
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one I think everyone agrees that we need
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you know more relevant learning
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opportunities more access to those the
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outcomes that we're talking about
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everybody agrees on that what where it
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falls down where people don't get Beyond
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you know a learner profile or graduate
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profile in a plaque on the wall is an
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implementation and it's frankly it's
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because no teacher including myself or
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anyone I've ever talked to in teacher
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prep you know learned the competencies
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to facilitate this type of learner
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experience it doesn't happen and then
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our typical PD which is like okay well
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let's do training for eight hours or
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something that's also not going to help
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me change my practice over time so
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there's a certain set of competencies
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for the adults the Educators not just
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the teachers but also the campus Leaders
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The District leaders and a system that
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focuses on this and there has to be
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ongoing job embedded professional
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learning and coaching to make those
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incremental changes in practice that
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will actually lead to these kinds of
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experiences for Learners and really it's
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a culture shift so you know that's
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something that impacts the whole system
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right the the experiences that the
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adults have the experiences that the
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Learners have
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um you know it has to be intentional at
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every layer of the system however that
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sounds really overwhelming so I will say
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to go back to what you said earlier
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there are some you know there's
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incremental steps you can take so you
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start with a campus or you start with
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that engagement piece with your
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community you know you start with
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um you know once a year I mean you don't
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want this to just be a every Friday
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morning kind of thing or whatever but
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you start somewhere and and begin to
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make that shift in the culture and um
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you know it's so rewarding so rewarding
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for educators to see Learners truly
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engaged never having to ask the question
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why are we doing this yes
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it's rewarding to see the teachers kind
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of you know kind of uh own this kind of
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process as well it's very rewarding to
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see and I would just emphasize a word
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you used and that would be ongoing right
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it's it's not a a training that occurs
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and then you're done and you just
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implement the training it's an ongoing
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process
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um that I think you know leaders have to
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think about they have to commit to this
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as as a part of their structure but
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absolutely now you mentioned obviously
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Corpus Christi but there's some other
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districts that if if District leaders
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who are listening would like to go and
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see that are doing this kind of work who
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would you highlight from your experience
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well
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um you mentioned Mesquite and of course
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Mesquite has um great things happening
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in this area
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um Corpus Christi still has the schools
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are still intact that I mentioned
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um spring ISD started some of this a
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while back and is continuing it Memphis
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and Shelby County Schools is doing a
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district-wide initiative around this
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type of work including Blended learning
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in the process and engaging
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students in that work Bullock County
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Georgia is another one that I would say
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is is a leader in this area I mean
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honestly I could name about two dozen
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and so maybe we'll put that in the
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research area right so that folks can
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see different places that they can go
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and and see this in action in different
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places in the country where they might
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be close to
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sure and if a district or partner were
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interested in that and exploring more
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deeply into this work specifically how
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would they go about contacting you and
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arranging for a deeper conversation
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well so I mean obviously our engaged to
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learn website
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engage2learn.org and we have
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so many blogs white papers the results
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you know things that you can see and
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free tools and resources that people can
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use so that's one way my LinkedIn or
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Twitter I share a lot of things on my
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LinkedIn and my Twitter so that's
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another way and of course anyone can you
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know just reach directly out to me
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Shannon at engaged2learn.org so all of
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those wonderful ways well thank you
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Shannon for being a part of this
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important work of supporting our
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students in schools and thank you for
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your participation in the learn podcast
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thank you Dave
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foreign
