Listen in as David Vroonland and Shannon Buerk discuss Learning Opportunities & Outcomes for the education system. LEARN’s Mission is to enhance Learning Environments with Actionable strategies and solutions from analysis and development of Research, utilizing a Network of education partners.

1 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:05,040 I want to welcome our audience to this 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,680 learn podcast. It is in these podcasts 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:09,280 that learn wants you to meet experts 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:10,800 that can help you in your work as school 5 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,800 leaders or perhaps partners in the 6 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,280 education landscape. The topic for this 7 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:16,880 podcast is learning opportunities and 8 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:18,560 outcomes. And our guest is Shannon 9 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,880 Burke, founder and CEO of Engaged 10 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,439 toLearn. On the learn website, you will 11 00:00:23,439 --> 00:00:26,080 find on the research page under the COE 12 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:28,320 of access and the element of learning 13 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,480 opportunities and outcomes, research in 14 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,559 this area being discussed along with 15 00:00:32,559 --> 00:00:35,280 potential resources to access. Shannon, 16 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,880 I want to welcome you to the learn 17 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,120 podcast. It is good to have you here to 18 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,280 speak with us about this important topic 19 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,800 and I know you have an extensive 20 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,160 research and work background in the area 21 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:45,920 of learning opportunities and outcomes, 22 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,120 but would you please share with the 23 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,480 audience some of that background and 24 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,640 experience? Absolutely. Thanks for 25 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,640 having me, Dave. and I'm just very 26 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,800 excited that uh the learn group is 27 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,039 putting together the this work because I 28 00:00:57,039 --> 00:00:58,559 think it's so valuable for educators. 29 00:00:58,559 --> 00:00:59,920 So, thanks for all you're doing for 30 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,960 that. Um yeah, in terms of my background 31 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,360 and experience, as you know, I was, you 32 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,799 know, I started out as a teacher when I 33 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:09,119 was 22, u much like you did and and 34 00:01:09,119 --> 00:01:12,240 others in the field and um learned very 35 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,520 quickly in my first teaching uh role how 36 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,600 important it was to create relevant 37 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,360 learning opportunities and access for 38 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,159 students. had seniors that year and they 39 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:24,240 had failed the exit exam four or more 40 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,159 times and it was the first year that 41 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:27,759 students could not walk the stage and 42 00:01:27,759 --> 00:01:29,920 get a diploma in the state of Texas if 43 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,840 they didn't pass the exit exam. So you 44 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,759 had seniors that you know had passed all 45 00:01:33,759 --> 00:01:34,880 the way through school but they weren't 46 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,560 going to get a diploma. That was my 47 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,920 first teaching job. So it was a little 48 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,479 trial by fire. And so I learned right 49 00:01:40,479 --> 00:01:42,640 off the bat from experience and I did a 50 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,400 lot of research then saying like how do 51 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,200 I make sure that these students who you 52 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,720 know have made it through school but now 53 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,880 are not passing this exam, how do I 54 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,119 create an opportunity for them to have 55 00:01:53,119 --> 00:01:55,200 access to what they need to be able to 56 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,439 get their diploma. And so right off the 57 00:01:57,439 --> 00:02:00,719 bat um in my teaching experience I I 58 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:02,719 learned about that. And then um you know 59 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:04,960 as as a lifetime educator and going into 60 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,719 administration and thinking about that 61 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:08,479 from a systems perspective has been 62 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,560 important for me and then with um 63 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,160 founding engaged to learn it's been one 64 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,040 of the bedrocks of our of our work with 65 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,000 you know 400 districts. So we've curated 66 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,520 a lot of the research around this. How 67 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,040 do you create better access? How do you 68 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,080 create better outcomes based on not just 69 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,160 standardized test scores not just what 70 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,400 you need to graduate but how do you 71 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,080 actually succeed in life? you know, how 72 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,840 do we make sure that students are life 73 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,319 ready? And so there's there's so much 74 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:36,160 valuable research out there around this 75 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,120 and um I've made it one of my passion 76 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,200 passions and one of my pursuits to 77 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,800 really understand everything we can and 78 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,879 then put it into practice. Right. And 79 00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:46,480 you've done a tremendous amount of work 80 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,239 around this, written numerous articles, 81 00:02:48,239 --> 00:02:51,599 even books around this work. But uh I 82 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:53,040 recognize in the amount of time we have 83 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,959 dedicated to this podcast, we can't 84 00:02:54,959 --> 00:02:56,640 cover all that research and work that 85 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:57,599 you've done around learning 86 00:02:57,599 --> 00:02:59,519 opportunities and outcomes. But would 87 00:02:59,519 --> 00:03:01,040 you share with our audience some of the 88 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,879 key insights and information about the 89 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:04,640 research and the work that you've done 90 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:09,200 in this area? Absolutely. And um again, 91 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,200 it's it it needs to be a bedrock of 92 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,239 education. We can't um we can't truly 93 00:03:14,239 --> 00:03:16,239 say that students are educated unless 94 00:03:16,239 --> 00:03:18,480 they've had the opportunity to truly 95 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,599 engage in a way that um gives them 96 00:03:21,599 --> 00:03:24,080 skills for life. And so um it's not 97 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,360 something that necessarily can be 98 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,800 measured in test scores. So I think 99 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,360 there's to me there's three key areas. 100 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,080 One area to think about is what you're 101 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,640 measuring because what you measure, you 102 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:36,640 know, we know the saying you value what 103 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,720 you measure, so measure what you value. 104 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,200 And in this case, a lot of the measures 105 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:42,640 that we already have out there, of 106 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,720 course, are not around the outcomes, the 107 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,480 long-term outcomes for learners. They're 108 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,159 more around the short-term outcomes of 109 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:49,599 have they processed the curriculum 110 00:03:49,599 --> 00:03:51,519 standards and, you know, are they able 111 00:03:51,519 --> 00:03:53,840 to apply those in a in a multiple choice 112 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,599 setting situation. So the first thing in 113 00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,319 any um school system that wants to 114 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:02,159 really value the outcomes for learners 115 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:03,680 that are going to be um life ready 116 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,840 skills is to find a way to measure those 117 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,439 so that it's something that that the 118 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:10,000 system focuses on. And there are curated 119 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,280 lots of different um already created 120 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,439 assessments out there. Um we've c 121 00:04:15,439 --> 00:04:17,040 curated those as well to share with 122 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,880 districts um all different types of 123 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,560 assessments that you can use to measure 124 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,560 some of those things. um including 125 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,400 obviously the student galllet poll for 126 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,000 engagement, you know, as a starting 127 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,680 place, but then you can look at the life 128 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,040 ready skills that align to what 129 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,560 employers want and um there's several, 130 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,639 you know, assessments that will assess 131 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:36,960 their progression on those life ready 132 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,479 skills in addition to what they're 133 00:04:38,479 --> 00:04:40,639 progressing with the curriculum. So how 134 00:04:40,639 --> 00:04:42,320 they're learning and the and the skills 135 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,240 they're acquiring that can be applied in 136 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,320 their later life are really important to 137 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,280 measure um to be able to so the first 138 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,520 thing is measuring those things and and 139 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:52,720 looking at what the measures are that 140 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,560 are out there valuing those. I mean, I 141 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,160 know school districts that are making 142 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,520 that a part of their grading and 143 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,000 reporting um over time because, right, 144 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,240 if you if you aren't reporting on it, 145 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:03,759 maybe it's not that important, right? 146 00:05:03,759 --> 00:05:05,919 But if you are, then it is. And so um 147 00:05:05,919 --> 00:05:07,440 you know, and gathering perceptions of 148 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,120 families and teachers and students 149 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,720 themselves on these types of outcomes 150 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,880 that they've identified. So I think a 151 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,560 lot of school districts have something 152 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,479 like a learner profile or a graduate 153 00:05:16,479 --> 00:05:19,840 profile. And uh the recommendation from 154 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:21,840 experience and research is take that 155 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:24,240 profile and put it into action because 156 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:25,680 those profiles are beautiful. They say 157 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,360 all these things about what the outcomes 158 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,720 are that we want for kids, but until 159 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,639 they're measured and a part of the 160 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:33,520 system, then we don't um we don't force 161 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,199 the system to then create the 162 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:36,800 opportunities for learners to acquire 163 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,320 the skills. We say we want them, but we 164 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,840 don't have that in place. So first thing 165 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:42,320 is measuring it. Um second is you know 166 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,639 creating again a learning environment 167 00:05:44,639 --> 00:05:46,320 that is conducive to that and that's a 168 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,160 different type of system you know it 169 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:49,919 can't be one-sizefits-all obviously 170 00:05:49,919 --> 00:05:52,560 because learners aren't able to then 171 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:53,680 make progress on those different 172 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:54,960 outcomes that are aligned to their 173 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,560 interests and their passions and their 174 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,520 futures um if it's one-sizefits-all um 175 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,520 and I and I love the um you know Bill 176 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,440 Daget says this but essentially it's 177 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,000 like you know if you increase relevance 178 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,800 then you can increase rigor so it It's 179 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,280 in a way the you've heard me say this 180 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,600 before, but you don't have to sacrifice 181 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,160 achievement when you're being innovative 182 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,080 about learner outcomes. You can actually 183 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,039 have both. And so um creating an 184 00:06:23,039 --> 00:06:24,800 environment that is conducive to that to 185 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,000 where um educators can plan and design 186 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,160 experiences around those things and 187 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,000 around those outcomes. Then then the 188 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,199 third thing um is and this is related to 189 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:36,880 the measurement piece but it's really a 190 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,600 first step before that is building out 191 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,560 those skills or those outcomes that this 192 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,880 system has decided on as competencies. 193 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,520 So as as progressive competencies, level 194 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,600 competencies that can go right alongside 195 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,759 the standards to say yes, we have these 196 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:54,000 stand curriculum standards. Important, 197 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,000 not disregarding those, but here are 198 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,720 those um life ready skills or whatever 199 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,240 that system wants to um term those um 200 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,560 skills as outcomes that um are 201 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,160 competencies that learners can have 202 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,479 agency over, set goals on and make 203 00:07:08,479 --> 00:07:10,720 progress towards um in their learning. 204 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,919 and then being able to align so that you 205 00:07:13,919 --> 00:07:16,720 know aligning curriculum resources and 206 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,720 learning opportunities to those pieces. 207 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,080 That's how you create an intentional 208 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,639 system around it. Um I think a lot of 209 00:07:22,639 --> 00:07:25,520 educators today are 210 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,919 are certainly engaging students with 211 00:07:27,919 --> 00:07:29,840 their interests, polling students about 212 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,039 their interests and trying to include 213 00:07:31,039 --> 00:07:32,960 those in the curriculum. a different way 214 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,199 to think about it is to truly actually 215 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:38,479 organize the curriculum around those 216 00:07:38,479 --> 00:07:40,160 interests and outcomes instead of trying 217 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,240 to infuse it the other way. So that's 218 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,960 that that third piece. Those those are 219 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,599 very powerful pieces and and uh I 220 00:07:47,599 --> 00:07:49,680 imagine quite a journey for a district 221 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,479 to go down um to try to get that kind of 222 00:07:52,479 --> 00:07:54,560 alignment across those three pieces. But 223 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,560 in your experience, if a district wanted 224 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,400 to engage in this work kind of out of 225 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,319 the gate, my experience has been you 226 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:01,919 have to be able to share with your 227 00:08:01,919 --> 00:08:04,160 internal and external communities some 228 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,720 of those kind of positive potential 229 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,800 outcomes right out of the gate that kind 230 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,759 of get people excited. Um what would be 231 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:13,120 those things that you would tell a 232 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,680 district, hey, be prepared to share this 233 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,599 because it'll really help you launch 234 00:08:17,599 --> 00:08:19,360 this work? 235 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,280 Well, one of the great things about this 236 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,280 type of work is that engaging people in 237 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:24,960 the conversation to even set the 238 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:26,160 outcomes in the first place. Like 239 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,160 engaging families and folks from 240 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,479 different professions in in that 241 00:08:30,479 --> 00:08:33,360 conversation is I think pro probably one 242 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,279 of the most accessible conversations 243 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:36,959 around education that you can engage 244 00:08:36,959 --> 00:08:39,200 your community and parents in. So I do 245 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,039 believe and we've seen it from 246 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,279 experience in thousands of situations 247 00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:45,760 where engaging folks in the community to 248 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,839 create you know to say these are the 249 00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:49,120 outcomes we care about is really 250 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,720 important. So that's that's a that's an 251 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,480 important step and a first step. A lot 252 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:53,920 of folks have done that already which is 253 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,160 great. So now it's just taking that set 254 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,320 of outcomes and turning it into 255 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,360 actionable um um you know something that 256 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,839 can be um acted on. So I think that's 257 00:09:03,839 --> 00:09:06,320 important. I I'm reminded of the story 258 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,160 of of the metro school. So this was our 259 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,839 this was one of engaged tole learn's 260 00:09:09,839 --> 00:09:12,160 first engagements 261 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,800 um with a school district at the uh 262 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,720 almost 12 years ago now and this was the 263 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,399 metropolitan schools of design in Corpus 264 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:20,320 Christie ISD and these were two campuses 265 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,000 elementary and secondary that were going 266 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,320 to be shut down if um they continued in 267 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,560 their vein so they kind of reopened them 268 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,839 and their real focus was on um I can't 269 00:09:29,839 --> 00:09:31,279 remember what they called them whatever 270 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:32,800 the life ready skills soft skills I 271 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,000 think they called them at that point 272 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,519 engaged the community in coming up with 273 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:37,680 that list and then made those again a 274 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:40,160 part of reporting and then designed 275 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,320 experiences that created relevance 276 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,040 connected to those and I think that you 277 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,959 know what was exciting was at the very 278 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:48,160 beginning just like you're saying they 279 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,480 talked with parents and families about 280 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,880 the value of these types of experiences 281 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,440 and these types of outcomes and then 282 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,200 engaged them in helping to create 283 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,839 relevance within the curriculum and we 284 00:09:59,839 --> 00:10:01,680 all want more family engagement I think 285 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,120 it's so important and this is such a 286 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,720 natural way to do it because it's 287 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,959 bringing people's professions 288 00:10:06,959 --> 00:10:08,480 their interests, you know, into the 289 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,160 classroom and and making them a part of 290 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,040 that. The results in that particular um 291 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,839 situation within one year, we saw 292 00:10:15,839 --> 00:10:17,920 unbelievable gains on the test. They 293 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,200 they met AYP. They had up to 24 294 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,680 percentage point gains in one year um 295 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:25,360 for all types of students in every 296 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,279 subject area, in every, you know, 297 00:10:27,279 --> 00:10:29,680 student group, including special needs. 298 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:33,120 And engagement increased significantly. 299 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,920 Um, and then you know there's all kinds 300 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,000 of anecdotal stories about like I talked 301 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,519 to one particular student for example 302 00:10:39,519 --> 00:10:41,760 that said before I was in this 303 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,560 environment my goal was to be like my 304 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,079 brother a drug dealer you know that's 305 00:10:46,079 --> 00:10:47,519 what I was going to drop out of school 306 00:10:47,519 --> 00:10:49,040 at the end of my freshman year when I 307 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,399 would turn of age and then and now I see 308 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:54,079 that because of the relevance the way 309 00:10:54,079 --> 00:10:55,680 that you know that I can have leadership 310 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:57,360 abilities this was when he was a senior 311 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:58,880 he was number two in his class he went 312 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,480 to Rutgers he had created like a 313 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,560 community um a a student youth group, 314 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,200 community uh group that would be like 315 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,240 was like helping to clean up and and um 316 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,680 recreate different areas of the 317 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:13,200 community that needed renovating and 318 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,680 reviving. So, it's just it's one of 319 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:17,440 those things when you I've always said 320 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,040 when you take the power of everything 321 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,880 that learners can bring to the table and 322 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,959 infuse that into the experiences that 323 00:11:22,959 --> 00:11:24,480 that learners can have, we can really, 324 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:25,680 you know, we can really change the world 325 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,839 because they have great ideas, too. So, 326 00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:30,079 yeah. Yeah. And I think that's powerful 327 00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:31,440 what you just said. You know, that whole 328 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,600 idea of engaging your community around 329 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,760 the things that they value, especially 330 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,920 as you hear the the conversations today 331 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:39,600 in the political atmosphere, that 332 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,440 actually helps diffuse that because 333 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,040 you're engaging them in things that 334 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,519 matter um beyond just the curriculum and 335 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:48,000 trying to trying to, you know, kind of 336 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,519 inspire people through curriculum, which 337 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:51,440 usually doesn't work. So, you've done 338 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,440 this work a lot. You've done this across 339 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,360 the country. Frankly, you've done it 340 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,440 with me, but would you share some of 341 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,519 those implementation barriers also that 342 00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:01,519 you've seen that districts need to be 343 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:02,720 aware of if they're going to go down 344 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,959 this pathway of really investing in 345 00:12:04,959 --> 00:12:06,480 authentic learning opportunities for 346 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,360 kids? I think it's a really important um 347 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,240 point because no one I think everyone 348 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,320 agrees that we need, you know, more 349 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,079 relevant learning opportunities, more 350 00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:18,320 access to those the outcomes that we're 351 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,160 talking about, everybody agrees on that. 352 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,560 what where it falls down where people 353 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,320 don't get beyond you know a learner 354 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:25,920 profile or a graduate profile in a 355 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,240 plaque on the wall is in implementation 356 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,480 and it's it frankly it's because no 357 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,079 teacher including myself or anyone I've 358 00:12:32,079 --> 00:12:34,480 ever talked to in teacher prep you know 359 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,320 learned the competencies to facilitate 360 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,000 this type of learner experience it 361 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,240 doesn't happen and then our typical PD 362 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,519 which is like okay well let's do 363 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:43,360 training for eight hours or something 364 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,200 that's also not going to help me change 365 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,440 my practice over time so there's a 366 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,519 certain set of competencies for the 367 00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:51,200 adults, the educators, not just the 368 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,279 teachers, but also the campus leaders, 369 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:55,040 the district leaders, and a system that 370 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,440 focuses on this. And there has to be 371 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,279 ongoing job embedded professional 372 00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:01,040 learning and coaching to make those 373 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,200 incremental changes in practice that 374 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,600 will actually lead to these kinds of 375 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,440 experiences for learners. And really, 376 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,160 it's a culture shift. So, you know, 377 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,680 that's something that impacts the whole 378 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,600 system, right? the the experiences that 379 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,040 the adults have, the experiences that 380 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,279 the learners have. Um, you know, it has 381 00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:19,040 to be intentional um at every layer of 382 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,959 the system. However, that sounds really 383 00:13:20,959 --> 00:13:22,639 overwhelming. So, I will say to go back 384 00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:24,160 to what you said earlier, there are 385 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:25,519 some, you know, there's incremental 386 00:13:25,519 --> 00:13:27,360 steps you can take. So, you start with a 387 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,600 campus or you start with that engagement 388 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,120 piece with your community. You know, you 389 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,600 start with um, you know, once a year. I 390 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,040 mean, you don't want this to just be a 391 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,639 every Friday morning kind of thing or 392 00:13:36,639 --> 00:13:38,639 whatever, but you start somewhere and 393 00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:40,480 and begin to make that shift in the 394 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,880 culture. And um you know it's so 395 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,959 rewarding so rewarding for the educators 396 00:13:44,959 --> 00:13:47,040 to see learners truly engaged never 397 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,399 having to ask the question why are we 398 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:50,800 doing this. Yes. Exactly. It's rewarding 399 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,440 to it's rewarding to see the teachers 400 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,920 kind of you know kind of uh own this 401 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,600 kind of process as well. It's very 402 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,000 rewarding to see um and I would just 403 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,760 emphasize a word you used and that would 404 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,720 be ongoing right. It's it's not a a 405 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,320 training that occurs and then you're 406 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,600 done and you just implement the 407 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,000 training. It's an ongoing process um 408 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,000 that I think you know leaders have to 409 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,320 think about. They have to commit to this 410 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,639 as as a part of their structure. But 411 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:19,279 absolutely. Now you mentioned obviously 412 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:21,120 Corpus Christi, but are there some other 413 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,600 districts that if if district leaders 414 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,360 who are listening would like to go and 415 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,920 see that are doing this kind of work? Um 416 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,000 who would you highlight um from your 417 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,760 experience? 418 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,160 Well um you mentioned Mosquet and of 419 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:35,839 course Mosquite has um great things 420 00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:38,959 happening in this area. Um um Corpus 421 00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:40,639 Christi still has those schools are 422 00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:43,199 still um intact that I mentioned. Um 423 00:14:43,199 --> 00:14:45,360 Spring ISD started some of this a while 424 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,440 back and is continuing it. Memphis um 425 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,760 Shelby County Schools uh is doing a 426 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,240 district-wide um initiative around um 427 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,320 this type of work. Um including blended 428 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,760 learning in the process and engaging um 429 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,079 uh students in that work. Um Bullet 430 00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:02,560 County, Georgia is another one that um I 431 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,680 would say is is a leader in this area. I 432 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,199 mean, honestly, I can name about two 433 00:15:07,199 --> 00:15:09,120 dozen. And so, maybe we'll put that in 434 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,199 the research area site so that folks can 435 00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:14,800 see different places that they can go 436 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,480 and and see this in action in different 437 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,000 places in the country where they may be 438 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,720 close to. Sure. And if a district or 439 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,320 partner were interested in that and 440 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,000 exploring more deeply into this work 441 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,760 specifically, how would they go about 442 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,199 contacting you and arranging for a 443 00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:29,199 deeper conversation? 444 00:15:29,199 --> 00:15:31,760 Well, so I mean obviously our engaged 445 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,560 learn website, engagedtolearn.org or um 446 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,839 and we have so many blogs, white papers, 447 00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:39,519 the results, you know, things that you 448 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:41,839 can see and free tools and resources 449 00:15:41,839 --> 00:15:43,920 that people can use. So, that's one way 450 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,079 um my LinkedIn or Twitter. I share a lot 451 00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:48,480 of things on my LinkedIn and my Twitter. 452 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:49,839 Um so, that's another way. And of 453 00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:51,519 course, anyone can, you know, just reach 454 00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:52,320 directly out to me, 455 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,639 shannonagtolearn.org. 456 00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:57,040 So, all of those wonderful ways. Well, 457 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,399 thank you Shannon for being a part of 458 00:15:58,399 --> 00:15:59,920 this important work of supporting our 459 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:01,839 students in schools and thank you for 460 00:16:01,839 --> 00:16:04,240 your participation in the Learn podcast. 461 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,639 Thank you Dave.