1 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,200 I want to welcome our audience to this 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,600 learn podcast. It is in these podcasts 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,360 that learn wants you to meet experts 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,040 that can help you in your work as school 5 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:12,960 leaders or perhaps partners in the 6 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,440 education landscape. The topic for this 7 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,199 podcast is teacher development and our 8 00:00:17,199 --> 00:00:19,680 guest is Shannon Burke, founder and CEO 9 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,240 of Engaged toLearn. On the learn 10 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:24,080 website, you will find on the research 11 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:26,960 page under the COE of innovation and the 12 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,359 element of teacher development research 13 00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:31,119 in this area being discussed along with 14 00:00:31,119 --> 00:00:33,840 potential resources to access. Shannon, 15 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:35,520 I want to welcome you again to the learn 16 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,760 podcast. It's good to have you here to 17 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,120 speak with us about this important 18 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,120 topic. I know you have extensive 19 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:42,480 research and work background in the area 20 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:43,920 of teacher development and have worked 21 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,000 with you personally, but I know you've 22 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,760 been recognized by many for your work 23 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,760 expertise, including the organization 24 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,320 Women We Admire, who recognized you as a 25 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,600 top 50 CEO in 2022, and you were also 26 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,760 recognized with the 2022 Enterprising 27 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,920 Women of the Year Award. Now, would you 28 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:01,520 please share with the audience some of 29 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,120 that background experience that led to 30 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,119 this recognition? 31 00:01:05,119 --> 00:01:07,040 Thank you, Dave. Thanks for having me 32 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,479 again. and it's always great to visit 33 00:01:08,479 --> 00:01:11,760 with you. I'll just say that I never set 34 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,560 out to be um you know a top 50 CEO or an 35 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,000 enterprise. I wanted to be a teacher. I 36 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,439 wanted to be an educator and I was a 37 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:22,640 teacher and an educator. And really what 38 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,560 happened was during that time um 39 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,119 essentially I decided that the maybe the 40 00:01:29,119 --> 00:01:30,960 most important lever to really be able 41 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,400 to um shift the culture of education to 42 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:35,680 make sure that it was more human- 43 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,520 centered for both learners and the 44 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,560 adults in the system was to focus on 45 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,400 professional learning and to really 46 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,200 focus on how we could shift um 47 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,799 professional development. And the best 48 00:01:46,799 --> 00:01:48,079 way I found to do that when I was in 49 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:50,320 assistant soup in a district, I needed a 50 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,320 partner that could help us with that 51 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,280 capacity building um and couldn't really 52 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,960 find a custom partner that would, you 53 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,479 know, that wasn't just going to bring in 54 00:01:58,479 --> 00:02:00,079 a program, somebody that was going to 55 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:02,399 really help us develop people, um but 56 00:02:02,399 --> 00:02:05,520 aligned to our goals. And um so that was 57 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,479 kind of the the foundation of Engage to 58 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,959 Learn and has led to I'm excited about 59 00:02:10,959 --> 00:02:13,040 these awards because what I feel like it 60 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,840 does a couple things. one. Um, you know, 61 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,480 I'm I'm excited to encourage other women 62 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,879 and other female educators that there's 63 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:22,800 all kinds of career paths out there. Get 64 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,319 into education. You never know what's 65 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:27,040 going to happen. And then also, I think 66 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,440 it's uh, you know, it's it's great for 67 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,200 educators and education, public 68 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,440 education in general, for it to be clear 69 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,040 that, you know, we're doing some amazing 70 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,040 things in this industry and the 71 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,120 perception um, to try to change the 72 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,800 perception of of what a lot of people 73 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,720 think about public ed. I'm excited to 74 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,560 have the awards for those reasons. Um, 75 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,000 and you know, of course, it was the 76 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,840 great work of our team and our partners 77 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,040 and all, you know, not just me. So, um, 78 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,760 but I but I love the the work that we've 79 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,920 done in this area and how we're thinking 80 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,239 about transforming, um, professional 81 00:02:58,239 --> 00:03:00,640 learning. Um, I like to say that it's 82 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:03,760 really important that we shift from PD 83 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,159 to what I call TD, so pro professional 84 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:08,560 development, talent development. um make 85 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,840 that a mind shift and um really treat 86 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,640 teachers as talent, which I know you 87 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:16,000 agree with and I know you've done in 88 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,440 your own um in your own um work and in 89 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,760 your own leadership um capacity, you've 90 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,000 done the same thing. But I I um love 91 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,360 this work and I feel like it's making 92 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,959 such a difference for everyone in the 93 00:03:26,959 --> 00:03:29,120 system. And Shannon, how long have you 94 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,480 been doing this work of teacher 95 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,640 development? Um it's been a long time 96 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:34,720 now. I knew you early on, but I actually 97 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,640 can't recall the amount of time. How big 98 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,319 a team have you put together to do this 99 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:40,799 work and and how engaged are you 100 00:03:40,799 --> 00:03:42,319 nationally? I mean, your profile has 101 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:44,000 shifted from, you know, kind of the 102 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,640 Dallas Fort Worth area to a national 103 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:47,840 profile. Can you share a little bit 104 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,319 about that? Sure. So, I've actually been 105 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:52,959 in the business of, you know, androgoi, 106 00:03:52,959 --> 00:03:54,560 which is adult learning and professional 107 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,879 learning since I was 22, crazy as that 108 00:03:56,879 --> 00:03:58,400 sounds, because I started doing some 109 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,400 consulting work as a result of my first 110 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,080 year teaching experience and having some 111 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,439 really good success there. People wanted 112 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:04,959 to know what I was doing. So, I really 113 00:04:04,959 --> 00:04:06,879 started consulting way back then. Um, 114 00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:10,319 Engaged toLearn has been in um place 115 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:13,439 since um 2012. So, we're 10 years, a 116 00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:15,599 little over 10 years now. And like you 117 00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:16,959 said, we, you know, we were born and 118 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:19,519 bred in Texas. And so we started in um 119 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:22,079 the the Texas area, but now we're in 16 120 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,960 states um across the nation um working 121 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,280 in some very large um districts um some 122 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:32,560 um you know really influential city um 123 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,199 school districts and everything to you 124 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:37,280 know 500 student districts as well. So 125 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:39,919 we work with all um I think this year um 126 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:41,759 well in total I think it's over 400 127 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:45,360 school districts at this point and um 128 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,840 like 75,000 educators that we've worked 129 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:49,440 with. you have a great deal of 130 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,520 experience and have it put together an 131 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,759 incredible team to do work on this and I 132 00:04:53,759 --> 00:04:55,120 know you spent a lot of time in the 133 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,440 research and in this podcast we can't 134 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:58,960 possibly cover all the research around 135 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,040 teacher development that you have either 136 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,280 explored or conducted but would you 137 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:04,720 share with the audience some key 138 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,120 insights or information about the 139 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,039 research that is out there about teacher 140 00:05:09,039 --> 00:05:11,680 development? Absolutely. And we, you 141 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,600 know, we have a team of about 120 folks 142 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,320 now. Um, over 2,000 years of K12 143 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,080 experience. And our, everything we've 144 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,000 done has been grounded in research. And 145 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,400 so, we've curated research. We do all 146 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,479 kinds of content and research curation 147 00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:26,479 every year. Um, I think foundational 148 00:05:26,479 --> 00:05:28,560 research in this area is the research 149 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,080 that shows that, you know, our current 150 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,400 PD system doesn't work. Um, you know, 151 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,320 that training alone only transfers to 152 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,160 the classroom about 5% of the time. So 153 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,919 we're not only are we wasting time and 154 00:05:37,919 --> 00:05:40,320 money um in a lot of ways we know that 155 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,240 it's doing harm to continue to conduct 156 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,320 training one hit you know one day type 157 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,440 training um and because it it's a waste 158 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,000 of time but also because it um educators 159 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,759 get cynical and they're not able to 160 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:53,680 implement all these things. I think you 161 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,440 know as a result of the pandemic now 162 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,199 there's like seven new tools that every 163 00:05:57,199 --> 00:05:59,039 educator is trying to incorporate into 164 00:05:59,039 --> 00:06:01,759 their practice um is another um point of 165 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:04,240 research and so it's it's um frustrating 166 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,560 and and um demeaning in some ways um and 167 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,479 really that's why I keep saying we need 168 00:06:10,479 --> 00:06:12,560 to be treating teachers as talent 169 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,120 because if we thought about professional 170 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:16,960 development the way that businesses 171 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,039 think about talent development we'd be 172 00:06:19,039 --> 00:06:20,880 conducting professional learning in a 173 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,080 completely different way. One, it would 174 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,160 be ongoing and job embedded. Two, it 175 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,600 would be um driven by the agency of the 176 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,240 person who is being, you know, is the 177 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:31,360 one that's being professionally 178 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,199 developed. So instead of programs and 179 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:34,880 initiatives driving it and topics 180 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,639 driving professional learning, it would 181 00:06:36,639 --> 00:06:38,639 be competencies that individuals are 182 00:06:38,639 --> 00:06:40,000 setting goals on and working on a 183 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,199 progression of their skills and 184 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:43,039 enhancing their own craft. That's the 185 00:06:43,039 --> 00:06:44,880 way that talent development happens. And 186 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,560 we have to treat educators as talent 187 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,960 because they are and because we need to 188 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,800 retain them and and everything that goes 189 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,360 with that. So um I think some of the key 190 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,120 research is is really looking at 191 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,960 professional learning and androgoi as a 192 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,479 whole. What does adult learning really 193 00:06:58,479 --> 00:07:00,400 need to look like? How do we really use 194 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,919 that science and how do we really use um 195 00:07:03,919 --> 00:07:06,560 competency based um professional 196 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,880 learning that is an upskill of talent 197 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,000 over time and you've you've done some of 198 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,840 this in your own career. It's super 199 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,000 important to think about again these 200 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,319 professions as professions, education 201 00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:19,840 professions as professions. And that 202 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,080 means what is the career pathway? And 203 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,520 and that doesn't mean you have to get 204 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:24,800 out of the classroom, but it means what 205 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,479 is the career pathway where people can 206 00:07:26,479 --> 00:07:28,479 progress in their careers. That's how 207 00:07:28,479 --> 00:07:30,319 people feel um good about what they're 208 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:31,759 doing. They feel like their work in life 209 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:33,680 is meaningful. And we have to set those 210 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:34,880 up in the way that we think about 211 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,319 professional learning instead of just 212 00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:38,800 topic of the year. Um right. So to me, 213 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,759 it's one of the most in in my opinion 214 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:43,599 one of the easiest things to change and 215 00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:45,120 one of the most impactful things to 216 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,520 change. It doesn't cost any more money. 217 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,759 it actually costs less time. So making 218 00:07:49,759 --> 00:07:51,759 that change, it's like we just it's just 219 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:54,879 a mindset shift um instead of top down 220 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:56,000 here's what we want everyone to 221 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,759 implement. Um and that's the way we 222 00:07:57,759 --> 00:07:59,840 think about um professional learning. We 223 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,759 think of it as talent development and it 224 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:04,240 and it originates with the individual 225 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,319 and it's differentiated 226 00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:08,720 necessarily because of that um focused 227 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,080 on competencies, goal setting and 228 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,000 progression over time. And then ideally, 229 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,759 you know, individual support that's 230 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:15,599 provided to to folks as they're going 231 00:08:15,599 --> 00:08:17,199 through that in the form of coaching, 232 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:19,919 but not gotcha. You know, are you doing 233 00:08:19,919 --> 00:08:21,520 what I wanted you to do? Let me check 234 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,199 off the box if you are or not. You know, 235 00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:24,720 I mean, I think our performance and 236 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,639 evaluation system contributes to some of 237 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:28,879 that. Um, but if we think about it again 238 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:30,560 as talent development, it would be a 239 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:31,919 very different it's a very different 240 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:33,440 scene. So, there people that are doing 241 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,839 great work in this area um in their 242 00:08:35,839 --> 00:08:38,080 districts and 243 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,159 uh getting great results. Well, 244 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:41,599 wonderful. And it's it's interesting you 245 00:08:41,599 --> 00:08:43,360 use the term talent development and I 246 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,760 know you were an athlete and and I can't 247 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,080 help but reflect on on athletes and the 248 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,560 whole concept of talent development. Um 249 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:52,640 it it seems to ring true that you're 250 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,880 you're really developing their talent 251 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,120 and maximizing that potential. I'm 252 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,120 curious um we probably don't have a lot 253 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,120 of time to go into this, but I'm curious 254 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,839 as a part of uh um the implementation of 255 00:09:03,839 --> 00:09:06,880 talent development mindsets. Uh do you 256 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,200 find um uh you know fertile ground uh in 257 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,120 in the teachers wanting to do this or do 258 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,720 you find some difficulties because 259 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,120 they're not used to being treated as 260 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,480 talent um but more receptacles of of the 261 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,519 talent of others if that makes sense. 262 00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:25,279 Absolutely. And and you nailed it. I 263 00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:27,279 mean it's actually both. It's at first 264 00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:28,640 they're like oh is this going to be the 265 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,399 same thing? Is this are you trying to 266 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:32,720 you know check off the your boxes and 267 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,000 check and see if I'm doing what I'm 268 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,240 supposed to be doing? But very quickly 269 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,560 they learn, oh, this is actually a 270 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:40,399 partnership that's helping me reach my 271 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:45,120 goals. And so, so two very quick stories 272 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,880 um along these lines. One, special ed 273 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,040 teacher, 30-year special ed teacher who 274 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,760 said in his last year, you know what, 275 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,519 for this year, I am not going to that 276 00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:55,279 ridiculous PD that's been wasting my 277 00:09:55,279 --> 00:09:57,279 time for all of these 30 years. You 278 00:09:57,279 --> 00:09:58,720 know, I'm just I'm going to rebel this 279 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,560 year. And I'm just like this poor man 280 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:02,480 who's been in special, you know, worked 281 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:03,839 with special needs kids for his whole 282 00:10:03,839 --> 00:10:05,680 career but felt like his time was wasted 283 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:08,320 this entire time with PD. It's crazy. On 284 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,040 the other hand, um an educator 22 years 285 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,040 in the profession that progressing 286 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,480 through these competencies with this 287 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,240 with a thought partner, a coach that was 288 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,399 helping them develop that talent, not 289 00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:19,680 because they needed to be on a growth 290 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:21,360 plan, but because they wanted to enhance 291 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,680 their craft as they were getting badged 292 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:25,680 for that progression of of of 293 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:27,519 competency, said, "This is the first 294 00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:29,120 time I actually feel recognized for 295 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,600 evidence of my own practice and valued 296 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,519 for what I'm doing to enhance my 297 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:35,440 practice in the classroom." And that was 298 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,680 just from a digital badge, you know. So 299 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,440 again thinking about that and going like 300 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,920 okay yes we need to treat educators as 301 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,839 talent and then the other thing is I'll 302 00:10:43,839 --> 00:10:45,519 say not just teachers but what we're 303 00:10:45,519 --> 00:10:47,760 seeing is campus leaders are embracing 304 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,519 this type of support and progression 305 00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:52,560 based on competencies office managers um 306 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:54,320 facilities and maintenance you know 307 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,040 education employees are saying thank you 308 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,720 yes I want that support and I want to 309 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,399 think of my craft as something that I 310 00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:02,160 can enhance over time continue to 311 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,000 develop you know true development over 312 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,000 time um people love that I mean that's 313 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,760 that's something that kind of feeds the 314 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,920 human spirit if you're really in charge 315 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,279 of that and you see you're making 316 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:12,720 progress and you can apply it in your 317 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,399 practice. So that's kind of interesting. 318 00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:16,399 You've kind of answered the question of, 319 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:17,839 you know, what are those predictable 320 00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:19,600 positive outcomes if you were to try to 321 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,279 implement a talent development program 322 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:23,200 in your district? What would be those 323 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:24,880 predictable positive outcomes you'd want 324 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,200 to communicate to your to your teachers 325 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,079 especially uh about this this shift in 326 00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:32,959 the way you think about uh uh ongoing 327 00:11:32,959 --> 00:11:34,640 learning and coaching processes? Do you 328 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,240 want to kind of add to that a little bit 329 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,720 more? Sure. So, you know, anecdotally, 330 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,480 people saying they feel rejuvenated, 331 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,560 they're excited to work, people saying 332 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:44,000 that they were going to retire or leave 333 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,760 the profession that are going to stay. 334 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,920 But also in a quantitative way, we've 335 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,480 done a six-year study on this and seen 336 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,320 retention be near 100%. Wow. For people 337 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,320 who are following this competencybased 338 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,399 model and being supported individually 339 00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:00,399 on a differentiated scale. So, you can 340 00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:02,800 still provide some of the same topics, 341 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,880 but they're just aligned to these 342 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,399 competencies in a way that people are 343 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:07,600 choosing them like personalized 344 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,519 playlists, right? Um, but they're making 345 00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:10,959 progress on these competencies. We're 346 00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:13,440 seeing near 100% retention versus, you 347 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,959 know, 86% or whatever it might be. Um, 348 00:12:16,959 --> 00:12:18,800 for folks that are not getting the same 349 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,200 type of um, sure, development. That 350 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,519 makes sense. That makes sense. Now, at 351 00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:25,360 the same time though, you like anything 352 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,279 else, you have implementation barriers. 353 00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:28,800 Um, we've kind of talked on that on 354 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,880 mindset being one of those. Are there 355 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,120 any other kind of barriers to this work 356 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,560 that if you were going to go do this, 357 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:36,000 not to stop you from doing it, but if 358 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,040 you're going to go do this, you need to 359 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:38,959 be aware that this is something you're 360 00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:42,079 likely to be presented with. I think the 361 00:12:42,079 --> 00:12:44,399 first the most important one is mindset 362 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:46,480 because we've it's so ingrained in us 363 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,480 that if we want people to implement this 364 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,639 tool or this program, we have to train 365 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:52,399 them on it. Um, even though the research 366 00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:54,240 is so clear that that's not that doesn't 367 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,120 even work. Um so shifting that system 368 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,959 you know is in in the mindset around 369 00:12:58,959 --> 00:13:01,279 that is really important. Believing that 370 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:03,519 folks when they're given the um 371 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:04,959 ownership over their own professional 372 00:13:04,959 --> 00:13:06,240 learning are going to be able to make 373 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,360 that progress. Um I would say that's one 374 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,519 of the biggest barriers. You know every 375 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:13,360 other barrier that comes up with a lot 376 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,279 of these things is not the case. Unions 377 00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:17,440 love this by the way because they love 378 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,120 the individual support and the retention 379 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,279 the results. um student achievement goes 380 00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:23,839 up um significantly when people are 381 00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:25,360 implementing competencies that are 382 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,800 aligned to the research on student 383 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,839 achievement um and you know people feel 384 00:13:29,839 --> 00:13:31,760 supported and embrace it. So there's, 385 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,360 you know, there's really, it's really a 386 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,279 mindset and a systems perspective, you 387 00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:38,880 know, instead of like um creating the 388 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,720 trainings and the workshops, it's like 389 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,519 recreating those things as um you know, 390 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:45,440 asynchronous or DIY, you know, so 391 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,160 there's a there's a lift on shifting to 392 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,920 kind of a professional learning library 393 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,480 instead of um we've got to plan out all 394 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,360 these days for people. Um so, and a 395 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:56,320 little bit of you know, it's 396 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,320 reallocating resources. It's not more 397 00:13:58,320 --> 00:13:59,760 expensive, but it's reallocating 398 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,839 resources in that way. That makes sense. 399 00:14:01,839 --> 00:14:04,000 It also seems to me that one of the 400 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,279 things the district would have to 401 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:06,959 consider based on the modeling you 402 00:14:06,959 --> 00:14:09,199 described is how are you growing your 403 00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:12,079 campus leaders to be able to manage a 404 00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:14,399 talent development system? Um, is there 405 00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:16,720 anything you'd like to share about that? 406 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,880 Yeah, I think that's very critical and 407 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,199 then and it ends up being a partnership. 408 00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:22,639 What we're seeing is it ends up being a 409 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:24,800 partnership between HR and and you know 410 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,560 everything that has to do with PD, but 411 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,279 it's more of a it's a human capital, you 412 00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:31,199 know, approach. But yes, the campus 413 00:14:31,199 --> 00:14:33,519 leader is critical because again, it's 414 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:35,279 about creating a culture of ownership, 415 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:37,839 agency, growth mindset, you know, those 416 00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:39,839 things and and modeling that. I think 417 00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:41,199 the places we're seeing it be most 418 00:14:41,199 --> 00:14:42,959 successful is when the campus leader is 419 00:14:42,959 --> 00:14:44,959 saying, I want the same type of support. 420 00:14:44,959 --> 00:14:46,480 I'm benefiting from this type of 421 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,160 support. We're all in this together. 422 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,160 We're all growing in our craft. And with 423 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,959 so many new folks in campus leadership, 424 00:14:52,959 --> 00:14:55,040 in teaching, actually in district 425 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,760 leadership, um it's really the very 426 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,440 important time to be thinking like that 427 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,440 so that everybody can continue to grow 428 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,519 in those roles. Really important 429 00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:06,079 observation. And you know, you shared a 430 00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:08,320 story earlier of of a special ed 431 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,279 teacher, but is there another story or 432 00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:13,360 perhaps less about a specific teacher, 433 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,279 but about a district that has done this 434 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:17,760 work that has really transformed the way 435 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,680 in which they operate? 436 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,160 Well, I I need I would absolutely want 437 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,160 to bring up Arlington ISD. They're 438 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,079 really um focused on this competency 439 00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:28,639 based approach and have identified four 440 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:30,800 key competencies for their entire 441 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,880 district. Um also, I would bring up the 442 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,079 state of Kentucky. We're working with 443 00:15:34,079 --> 00:15:35,199 the state of Kentucky and they've 444 00:15:35,199 --> 00:15:37,279 they're implementing with 74 districts 445 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:39,600 and they're including this as part of an 446 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,320 approach on inclusion and belonging. And 447 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,399 so they're looking at competencies that 448 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:47,279 are um for everyone, every leader of 449 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:49,279 every from the state level, state board 450 00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:52,079 of education, regional service centers, 451 00:15:52,079 --> 00:15:54,000 um district leaders, campus leaders, and 452 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,759 teachers, instructional coaches, like 453 00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:57,519 the whole system to to develop these 454 00:15:57,519 --> 00:15:59,519 competencies, um and really own that 455 00:15:59,519 --> 00:16:01,600 over time and be recognized and badged. 456 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,160 Um so there's a there's a couple of them 457 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,320 that I would that I would bring up. um 458 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,720 Dallas ISD. I should bring them up 459 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,560 because um not only are they thinking 460 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,000 about this with their educators, but 461 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,519 also have been working with their 462 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:15,519 facilities and maintenance operations 463 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:18,320 technology um office managers. So, 464 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,079 they're actually expanding in Baltimore 465 00:16:20,079 --> 00:16:22,240 County, too. They're expanding this work 466 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,000 outside of just, you know, it's not just 467 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,440 instructional coaching, it's actually 468 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,120 talent development for everyone in the 469 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,680 system. So, um I think those are all 470 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,519 great examples and would be um good 471 00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:33,759 examples for folks to to learn from. 472 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:35,440 Well, it's incredible work you've done. 473 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,279 Now, if a district or partner were 474 00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:39,120 interested in exploring more deeply a 475 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,720 conversation around talent development 476 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,560 specifically, how would they go about 477 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,000 contacting you and arranging for that 478 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,720 deeper conversation? Well, I'm putting 479 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,320 out a ton of one, I wrote a book on 480 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,959 this. Um, so connect the dots. Um, and 481 00:16:50,959 --> 00:16:53,600 that basically showing how the the 482 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,959 growth of employees and educators leads 483 00:16:56,959 --> 00:16:58,480 directly to the outcomes that we want 484 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:59,920 for students and connecting those dots 485 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,839 so that we give those folks the credit 486 00:17:01,839 --> 00:17:03,680 instead of the technology or the tool or 487 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,000 whatever um for those changes and those 488 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,559 in those improved outcomes. So there's 489 00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:11,039 that. It's on Amazon. Also um of course 490 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,120 on LinkedIn and Twitter um I post about 491 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:14,160 this stuff all the time and then 492 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,880 engagedlearn.org or our website has a 493 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,839 lot of white papers, articles, um, and 494 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,000 information. And then, um, my contact 495 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,520 info. I'm always glad for folks to just 496 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,919 reach out to me directly. Shannon 497 00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:29,360 engaged tolearn.org. The number two. 498 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,200 Thank you, Shannon, uh, for being a part 499 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,559 of this important work. I really 500 00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:34,559 appreciate it sincerely in supporting 501 00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:35,919 our students and schools. And thank you 502 00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:37,440 for your participation in the Learn 503 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,799 podcast. Thanks, Dave.